FFP & QPR - MoS

[seven stands]

How about all football league teams fans boycott all games against prem teams in fa caup 3rd round ? Or even stop subscribing to sky sports ?. May still leave 30mil prem fans watching sky but the thought is there

 

[Creaky]

Why not just cancel the fines and give the promoted clubs a better chance of remaining in the Premier League?

 

[nwgull]

Are they not legally still part of the FL until the start of the next season when they enter the Premier League, so how is it the Prems concern.

The will be by December when the accounts are submitted.

 

[portslade seagull]

I thought there was a legal challenge to FFP under way already?

I seem to remember something about agents challenging it in the European Courts as a restriction on earnings which should mean that it is ruled illegal and it will have to be scrapped if they are successful.

This , the whole scheme will collapse before it even starts

 

[Seagull on the wing]

BG Have you been at the bottle again.....please read your post again,,,,

 

[BensGrandad]

BG Have you been at the bottle again.....please read your post again,,,,

I have but didnt explain it very well. At the time of breaking the rules clubs would be in The Championship so subject to the FL rules, so surely they, the FL, can take action irrespective of when, so how does it then become the problem for the Premier League, if the clubs who would be fined are not promoted and thus still under the FL or were promoted after the overspending was committed. So as I said it is not the Premier Leagues concern at any time or does it suddenly become their concern because the big clubs arent getting in on the handout.

 

[BensGrandad]

Why not just cancel the fines and give the promoted clubs a better chance of remaining in the Premier League?

Because they got there by cheating and should not be allowed to prosper from cheating.

 

[kevo]

Surely it is up to the FL what they do with the money raised in fines. It's quite extraordinary that the Premier League should have any say in what they can or can't do with it.

Not only that, but I'd be interested to know exactly WHY the Premier League object to this - are they not interested in making clubs financially prudent? What vested interest do they have in preventing the money being distributed among Football League clubs? There is no scenario in which the Premier League would benefit - what possible difference does it make to them if the money goes to FL clubs or to charity?

 

[Creaky]

Because they got there by cheating and should not be allowed to prosper from cheating.

If the "rules" are nonsensical and unenforceable then it makes little sense to abide by them to the detriment of your own club and its fans.

If the single potential benefit for those clubs abiding by the rules, (receipt of fines imposed on rule breakers), has now been removed the only effect of abiding by the FFP regulations is higher costs for fans and a lower quality of players and hence quality of football on offer.

If half the clubs in the Championship fail to meet the FFP targets and the League really does impose a transfer embargo then it is not only those clubs that will suffer - the embargoed clubs will hang on to the players they do have thus reducing the number of transfers between Championship clubs as well as those in the lower leagues - I fail to see how this will benefit any club and more importantly benefit the fans.

FFP is now all stick and no carrot.

 

[BensGrandad]

I think that I tend to agree with you and that the FFP and its rules have now become unworkable or enforceable.

 

[drew]

Why not just cancel the fines and give the promoted clubs a better chance of remaining in the Premier League?

If the "rules" are nonsensical and unenforceable then it makes little sense to abide by them to the detriment of your own club and its fans.

If the single potential benefit for those clubs abiding by the rules, (receipt of fines imposed on rule breakers), has now been removed the only effect of abiding by the FFP regulations is higher costs for fans and a lower quality of players and hence quality of football on offer.

If half the clubs in the Championship fail to meet the FFP targets and the League really does impose a transfer embargo then it is not only those clubs that will suffer - the embargoed clubs will hang on to the players they do have thus reducing the number of transfers between Championship clubs as well as those in the lower leagues - I fail to see how this will benefit any club and more importantly benefit the fans.

FFP is now all stick and no carrot.

Not to try and do something is immoral. The money will run out sooner or later. You worry about the fans but what about the suppliers that have lost money when clubs like Leeds, Leicester, Portsmouth, Coventry have just gone into administration.

 

[Creaky]

Not to try and do something is immoral. The money will run out sooner or later. You worry about the fans but what about the suppliers that have lost money when clubs like Leeds, Leicester, Portsmouth, Coventry have just gone into administration.

There is nothing in the FFP rules that will go one step towards preventing clubs from getting into financial problems - quite the opposite - fines and transfer embargoes can only further damage the financial health of those clubs making it more likely they will end up in administration not less.

Do you think that BHAFC would even be in existence if FFP rules had been in existence and strictly enforced twenty years ago?

There is nothing wrong in my mind with clubs running at a loss so long as those losses are sustainable - even the League would appear to agree with this as they are not trying to make all clubs profitable via FFP but trying to make all clubs run at the same level of loss, irrespective of whether those losses threaten the existence of the club or not.

Without the philanthropy of innumerable individuals over the last hundred years the current level of investment and infrastructure in our game would not be there. Most clubs would be playing in run down stadia, the best players would have migrated overseas and rather than just a handful of clubs having gone out of business there would be very few that had actually survived.

We shouldn't be restricting those individuals, such as TB, who genuinely want to do the best for 'their' club but encouraging them - what we should be doing is making sure that there are sufficient checks and balances in play to ensure that 'rogue' individuals or groups do not get control of a club and if they do manage to do so are unable to asset strip them for their own benefit.

 

[Leighgull]

Your plan consigns most of the championship teams to seasons and seasons of mediocrity while billionaires take their teams into the top flight (and often down again ) with total financial recklessness as a vanity project.

It's gone on too long and makes the financially competent teams suffer (and their fans) because the whole thing if artifice of the worst kind. It will e rumble in the end...ask and see what he had to say on the subject now. Blackburn Rovers and QPR along with Forrest and Leeds are now in the same boat.

It's just insane to assume fans have a great experience being built up and then left high and dry. Hammer the miscreants. You'd only have to do it once.

 

[Creaky]

Your plan consigns most of the championship teams to seasons and seasons of mediocrity while billionaires take their teams into the top flight (and often down again ) with total financial recklessness as a vanity project.

It's gone on too long and makes the financially competent teams suffer (and their fans) because the whole thing if artifice of the worst kind. It will e rumble in the end...ask . . . and see what he had to say on the subject now. Blackburn Rovers and QPR along with Forrest and Leeds are now in the same boat.

It's just insane to assume fans have a great experience being built up and then left high and dry. Hammer the miscreants. You'd only have to do it once.

I wouldn't argue with that - FFP strictly enforced would likely see those clubs suffering penalties going on a downward financial spiral and out of existence

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I wouldn't argue with that - FFP strictly enforced would likely see those clubs suffering penalties going on a downward financial spiral and out of existence

It would only take one season of properly enforced FFP to get the message over loud and clear

 

[Creaky]

It would only take one season of properly enforced FFP to get the message over loud and clear

Wishful thinking - a club exceeds the loss threshold and can't demonstrate that they are taking appropriate steps to reduce the losses so the League enforces a transfer embargo.

A few of the possible resulting scenarios are -

Those backing the club walk away and the club folds
The club has to hang on to the players they have under contract because they can't replace them due to the embargo - so they can't reduce player costs and suffer even greater losses the following season.
The club does sell the players they have to reduce costs - club performance suffers, crowds fall, they are possibly relegated, losses increase.

I'm trying hard to think of a scenario that will end with the club being in a better position financially due to FFP but can't think of one.

 

[Mental Lental]

Hi Al

Yes, we have been aware of this point for a little while now. It's very frustrating but, in a nutshell, the Premier League did not agree with the idea of any fines for promoted clubs that break FFP rules being distributed amongst Championship clubs (the Premier League has a say as, at the point of promotion, the club becomes one of their members and ceases to be a Football League member club).

The likelihood, as the Mail's piece suggests, is that any fine that is imposed on promoted clubs will be distributed to charity (in some way shape or form) instead. As far as QPR are concerned, this story is slightly inaccurate anyway as relegated clubs have a one season exemption (and, yes, that's frustrating too as battling against clubs with parachute payments is hard enough without there being special exemptions too!).

Personally speaking, and as useful as the transfer embargo sanctions will be in supporting the FFP regulations, I would have much preferred the fine distribution process to all other Championship clubs to have been part of the FFP sanctions. I know Tony and our Board would have preferred this too. I totally agree with you that this way of punishing errant clubs would have given the FFP rules both teeth and incentive.

This particular way isn't to be but it doesn't change our attitude towards FFP. At its core, the FFP rules, while not perfect by any means, are a sensible step in the right direction for how football clubs should be run - i.e. don't spend more than you can afford and don't risk the future of your football club by sustaining huge losses year after year. Ours is the only industry where losses are expected and, worse, losses are expected to be sustained indefinitely! After all, it's easy to forget, someone has to fund those losses.

We have had to battle very hard this year to reduce our overall operational costs to sustain (and to slightly improve) the football budget. It will be even harder again next year as we must somehow find a further £2m to maintain our football budget again and also stay within the FFP rules which as you know tighten further over time.

Even with all the work we have done to reduce our costs and improve our revenues - in other words simply run our business better - we fully expect our losses to be at least the same as last year (and most likely higher) as we've obviously been through large scale re-structuring while also continuing to ramp up our football investment around people and key infrastructure such as our new training and academy facility which is so vital for our future.

But this is the challenge we face. It's very difficult. I know people are bored with me banging on about this stuff - and with the club constantly driving hard to increase and protect our revenues while also finding ways of reducing our costs and being more efficient - but, as I hope you can see, we really have no choice if we're to protect our investment in the football budget. It's an ongoing battle for us - and indeed for all clubs. It's particularly difficult when many clubs in our division are receiving parachute payments to supplement the usual income streams for a Championship club.

I hope this makes some sense on a Sunday afternoon! As ever, happy to explain further where I can at any time. See you soon.

Kind regards, Paul

I like the way that these FFP discussions bring out the Premiershite fan boys that are so desperate to see Brighton in the Premier league that they would encourage flouting the regulations, and risking the financial future of the club just because they're so desperate to see the likes of Rooney et al playing at the Amex.

This reply from Barber is extremely encouraging for me as he is saying that regardless of FFP the club willl continue to try to keep losses at a minimum and if other clubs want to be financially irresponsible then that's their own business.

It looks like we are one of the main clubs promoting FFP and financial responsibility.

Those that think we should forget about FFP based on the actions of other clubs can frankly go and do one as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Creaky]

I like the way that these FFP discussions bring out the Premiershite fan boys that are so desperate to see Brighton in the Premier league that they would encourage flouting the regulations, and risking the financial future of the club just because they're so desperate to see the likes of Rooney et al playing at the Amex.

This reply from Barber is extremely encouraging for me as he is saying that regardless of FFP the club willl continue to try to keep losses at a minimum and if other clubs want to be financially irresponsible then that's their own business.

It looks like we are one of the main clubs promoting FFP and financial responsibility.

Those that think we should forget about FFP based on the actions of other clubs need to take a reality pill.

Nail on head!

Being opposed to FFP doesn't mean that you oppose the actions of those clubs that are attempting to put their finances on a solid footing - nor does it mean that you support those clubs taking a financial risk just to reach the Premier League.

What I am saying is that FFP regulations will hinder some clubs trying to be fiscally responsible whilst at the same time forcing some clubs to take even greater financial risks in order to achieve the Holy Grail of a place in the EPL.

I know I'm repeating myself but it's worth repeating - if FFP had been in force a few years ago then it is likely our club would have folded and even if it hadn't we certainly wouldn't have a new stadium and be playing in the Championship!

 

[Bwian]

There is no point in FFP!

I was very hopeful that the people in charge of football had finally grown some balls and were determined to make all clubs get their finances in order. I was also quite happy to see The Albion making great efforts to be FFP compliant.

Sadly, it looks like it (FFP) has all been a waste of time and energy. Not to worry. If The Albion are FFP compliant, regardless of what other clubs have done/are doing to comply, we have a football club that is being run properly and that, for me, is as important as results on the pitch.

 

[BensGrandad]

The principal and idea of FFP is correct but it is the administering of the rules that is at fault and not very well thought out. I am and always have been a great believer in that rules are made to be adhered to and if you cant enforce a rule dont make it in the first place. It is human nature to try to circumvent a rule but to do so with FFP could be suicidal so the rule should be made watertight and if a loophole is exploited plug it at the earliest opportunity.