[News] “Fare dodgers. Bike thieves. Shoplifters. Weird Turkish barber shops…. It’s all chipping away at society”

[Wozza]

I'm not sure how that answers the question. There was clearly loads of petty crime (including not paying for stuff) back in the day. And worse, when you think of gangs, the underworld and a load of wrong'uns. People probably only knew a fraction of the bad shit that went on. That tweet just shows some statistics from now.

Ok, I thought it might give you some context.

So I'll share my experience, having lived in London for 30 years.

Faredodging and shoplifting is getting way more common and blatent.

I've been to the Greggs at London Bridge four times in the past couple of years, and witnessed shoplifting twice. The first time, a teenager walked in, grabbed loads of stuff and shouted to her friends, "Everything is free if you've brave enough!".

Just last week, I saw a guy push open ticket barriers to let himself and partner through at London Bridge. She had loads of bags, including one from Selfridges, so she wasn't exactly skint.

If I switch from train to tube or vice versa, I expect to see a faredoger.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

People will disregard and disparage the message because of the track record of the individual behind it.

But the bigger picture is that regardless of what things may or may not been like in the past, industry-scale shoplifting with utter impunity, rampant tool theft from tradespeople, phone theft, bike theft and an epidemic of near deserted barbers being used as a front for laundering eye-watering sums of illicit cash is not okay.

Those responsible for all this are pissing themselves laughing as we all dance around the subject.

I absolutely support spending more money on front line policing to deal with these things*.

I'm less committed to which taxes I'm keen to raise or alternative spending cut in order to pay for it, but I'm open to serious suggestions.

Is that a limp wristed practical point? Yeah probably, but it fundamentally is the point. If we want to reduce crime we have to pay for law enforcement and all the economic and social programmes that stop people getting into that shit in the first place (not either/or, both) or we just shrug our shoulders and deal with it.

*Realistically, reduce it. These things were always a problem and they're not going away completely short of employing every other person as a policeman and every other person as a gaoler.

 

[Bozza]

How can he be so sure so many people are fare dodging? I go to London 2/3 times a month and still buy a paper travel card as I can’t be bothered to get my phone out to tap in/out each time. A lot of stations , especially on the DLR, have no barriers but tap in/out points only, so I just walk through.

Far be it from me to stick up for the lunatic Robert Jenrick, but if you're standing by barriers and someone clearly doesn't tap in/out then they are very likely fare-dodging.

Also, none of those in his video argued back that they weren't.

 

[Robdinho]

So let’s get this straight, a Tory MP, (who most on NSC don’t like anyway and think is a t\#t) goes onto the tube and challenges those who are brazenly not paying fares and jumping barriers, and gets the inevitable abuse and the casual ‘I’ve got a knife’ are ok with it, because
a; it’s always been done, just we see it now cause of social media
b khan doesn’t personally police the underground, so you can’t blame him
And c he once approved some building works therefore anything he says is discredited
Seriously….. this is criminality and should be ‘Clamped’ down on and does erode society

No, it's not ok. If only the Tories had had a chance to do something about it eh?

14 years of the Tories – police and probation - Magazine

UNISON national officer for police and justice Ben Priestley on how catastrophic cuts and mismanagement have impacted the justice system

magazine.unison.org.uk

But yeah, it's all Sadiq Khan's fault

 

[Pevenseagull]

The punishment that I think I would like to see meted out to the ****s who have stolen my bicycles over the years is certainly disproportionate and too severe.

Would I really want to see them eat their own testicles?

Perhaps not.


But maybe.

 

[Comrade Sam]

Who would have thought falling living standards, cuts to social services, austerity and increasing inequality leads to increased crime?
Even so the GB narrative of London as a city run by Sadique's islamic trans teen gangs is bollox - still one of the safest cities to live in.
I recently watched a YouTube clip of London in the early 80s. It was the usual tosh of trooping the colour, horse guards parade, Lord Mayor's show, tailors in Saville Row, etc. It was only when I read the comments that I was aware of the point. Endless old twats harped on about how London was so lovely then and they'd never return or visit now. They completely forgot the riots, racist violence and fire bombings, police brutality, mass unemployment, IRA bombing campaigns and gay bashing.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Even so the GB narrative of London as a city run by Sadique's islamic trans teen gangs is bollox - still one of the safest cities to live in.

I must have more threads on ignore than I realised if @Guinness Boy 's been harping on like that.

 

[Machiavelli]

He might be applying for a job that’s going to come up soon.

He might be attempting to hasten the coming up of that job that he might be applying for soon.

 

[cjd]

Hmm. On reflection I think I’ve fallen for some propaganda here.

Bad Clamp.

I don't agree.

You have every right to feel as you do and I don't believe you are wrong in your assumptions.

If you made a mistake, it was posting it on this comic book forum, which has little or no relevance to the general population at large.

This forum is far more a political wing of the left of society, who are daily preaching to their already converted brethren .


I enjoy most of your posts. Quick gut reaction and most definitely said from the heart, even if I don't always agree with them. I respect you for that, as opposed to several on here that I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

PS: I exclude Harold from Faversham from my criticism, who although is a tad dramatic at times, I enjoy his posts and views and above all, his ability to acknowledge a different point of view with good grace.

 

[Wozza]

Who would have thought falling living standards, cuts to social services, austerity and increasing inequality leads to increased crime?

The faredodgers I regularly see don't fall into this category at all. See example above.

Same with folk who use firesticks, circumvent paywalls, buy fake shirts etc.

It's not about affordability. It's... I dunno, entitlement?!

 

[jcdenton08]

This goes more for brazen shoplifting, but it’s such a difficult one. Thieves know the state of play. They know staff, even security, are told not to confront shoplifters. They know that retail staff on minimum wage don’t give a shit and aren’t likely to risk their jobs ignoring company policy. They also know that the police don’t have the resources to deal with shoplifting, so risk is as low as it has ever been.

All that’s happening are companies are suffering record shrinkage, and passing the costs onto increasingly embittered honest customers.

These aren’t kids nicking sweeties, or desperate homeless people stealing a sandwich to avoid starving to death. These are organised gangs stealing high value items with impunity.

As for fare dodgers, they piss me off equally.

Recent example, on a train home from Chichester to Seaford, early evening. Leaving Victoria, I saw several people tailgate through the barriers. Then on the train to Brighton, no ticket inspection on board.

Then on the train to Seaford, a group of quite rough and sweary teenage boys did get inspected. No tickets. The inspector just laughed and said where are you going (Newhaven), and sheepishly walked to the other end of the train without further comment.

What’s the solution? I have no idea. But there is a general lack of respect for laws and rules in society.

And Jenrick is a prat. He’s right on this, but he’s a prat all the same.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Delighted someone had more sense than Jenrick (although not a high bar).
On the subject of single women in Faversham…… don’t worry, they won’t be there for long.
On a recent trip to Brighton I noticed that many of the ladies “offered to me” through internet browsing in Somerset, seemed to have moved to Sussex. Even more remarkably, I was in Birmingham this week and the same women had followed me there!

To be fair, there are some really hot women from Ukraine wanting to meet blokes just like me right now.
Maybe I should row back on the Hai Karate!.

 

[Eeyore]

So let’s get this straight, a Tory MP, (who most on NSC don’t like anyway and think is a t\#t) goes onto the tube and challenges those who are brazenly not paying fares and jumping barriers, and gets the inevitable abuse and the casual ‘I’ve got a knife’ are ok with it, because
a; it’s always been done, just we see it now cause of social media
b khan doesn’t personally police the underground, so you can’t blame him
And c he once approved some building works therefore anything he says is discredited
Seriously….. this is criminality and should be ‘Clamped’ down on and does erode society

I think the wider point was that he approved those building works to the detriment of the taxpayer and to a Tory Party donor. I remember it at the time. Utter crook.

So, yes, he may have a point. But I'm not sure that folk are well disposed to taking moral guidance from him.

EDIT: Looking further, his hasty, and deliberate, approval of the building application at the the time would have cost the public purse £30-50m. That's a lot of fare dodgers.

 

[The Clamp]

The faredodgers I regularly see don't fall into this category at all. See example above.

Same with folk who use firesticks, circumvent paywalls, buy fake shirts etc.

It's not about affordability. It's... I dunno, entitlement?!

Entitlement for sure.

I think a shift in the perception of what money is.

To past generations it was tangible thing.

Now it appears not to be a real thing.

Lack of consequences. Lack of respect. “The whole world is my front room” attitude that kids have.

Personally I believe a lack of effective punishment and a lack of police support if you challenge these little pricks, all contributes to it .

The ****s are being supported and indulged while society pays the price.

A smack round the back of the head would sort a lot of these issues out.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

Were there any fare dodgers or shoplifters before July last year?

How can society be eroded when someone declared 40 years ago that there was no such thing?

Can ghosts be eroded as well?

 

[Greenbag50]

I think the wider point was that he approved those building works to the detriment of the taxpayer and to a Tory Party donor. I remember it at the time. Utter crook.

So, yes, he have a point. But I'm not sure that folk are well disposed to taking moral guidance from him.

It doesn’t matter who is making this particular point; the point is still valid and, at present, he is the only politician making it.
Focus on the message, not the messenger.

 

[Bozza]

Hmm. On reflection I think I’ve fallen for some propaganda here.

Bad Clamp.

Nah - no need to be hard on yourself.

I absolutely agree with your sentiment and, when I heard the video covered on the NA podcast, it was of sufficient interest for me to check it out for myself.

As @Wozza says, low-level crime is rife. I've also seen teenagers just blatantly shoplifting with no care or concern at all. When I was that age, there's no way on earth I'd have done similar. I was shit-scared both of the police and of my parents getting a knock on the door from the police. The line separating right from wrong was clear, and I wouldn't step over it.

Jenrick, though, is a bit of an opportunist and is carefully positioning himself to be the next Tory leader.

I know it's not the way of modern politics, but I would much prefer a less confrontational approach. If you truly care, look to work with Sadiq Khan. Attacking in this way doesn't feel constructive to me.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Then on the train to Seaford, a group of quite rough and sweary teenage boys did get inspected. No tickets. The inspector just laughed and said where are you going (Newhaven), and sheepishly walked to the other end of the train without further comment.

Serves him right for questioning some kids from Newhaven.

Seriously though, that sort of shit's gone on for years. Nobody's paid enough to deal with it and the cost of the few extra tickets you'd pick up wouldn't be worth paying for it to be enforced properly.

I'm sure we could dig out articles from the 19th century complaining about the same sort of thing.

 

[Eeyore]

It doesn’t matter who is making this particular point; the point is still valid and, at present, he is the only politician making it.
Focus on the message, not the messenger.

I'll do that next time someone robs my house and tells me not to cheat on my insurance claim.

 

[jcdenton08]

It doesn’t matter who is making this particular point; the point is still valid and, at present, he is the only politician making it.
Focus on the message, not the messenger.

But he was part of the government that oversaw cut after cut to police funding, and was Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government.

Why is he now doing this, when this issue hasn’t just started overnight. The decline in the social fabric of the country has been deteriorating for many years - including under his watch. He wasn’t fighting for more front line officers, he was overseeing budget cuts to key services in the “communities” he was charged with caring for.

He’s absolutely right, but he’s only saying it now to try and make Labour (specifically the Mayor) look bad, when he’s really just as much the cause and has had more power than most to actually do anything about it.

It’s cheap, dishonest point scoring.