[Politics] Far right party set to take power in Holland ?

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes, FPTP is utterly antiquated and wretched but this election is a great example of the limitations and pitfalls of PR. Way too much choice allowing the far right populists to sneak in by being the loudest and most offensive.

A modern and advanced preferential voting system is much better than both PR and FPTP. It protects a country against extremism in much the same way as FPTP but makes sure the majority’s least favourite option does not get in (57.6% of the electorate did not vote Tory in the last election and did not want them in).

PR also requires the PVV to form a coalition as 35 or 37 seats out of 150 seats isn't enough. Other parties can refuse to form a government with them.

 

[Eeyore]

So the NSC Party is holding the balance of power. They have interesting policies:

-Absolute zero tolerance of spelling errors in all
-Polls for all key decisions- including the national condiment
-Prejudice towards all referees
-Your latest book read must be disclosed and registered
-Any new MP must disclose a picture of their wife/girlfriend/ boyfriend/husband/both for a verdict on their suitability
-An additional poll on the above

I wonder who the ministers are.

 

[Eeyore]

Indeed. And just in the interests of accuracy, Wilders is currently predicted to win 37 seats in a 150-seat house, which is 25% not 35%. So "only" one in four voters picked him. Still shocking enough given the bile he spouts, but he's been knocking around there or thereabouts for two decades, so this was bound to happen eventually.

A lot of the problem here was that people were sick of the government that had ruled for the past 13 years (sound familiar), and all the other major parties were tainted by being involved in the ruling coalition at one time or other. Moreover, the Netherlands currently has a major housing crisis, and - rightly or wrongly - a lot of people seek to blame immigration for exacerbating the situation, rather than looking for a practical and sustainable solution. That current issue was weighing more heavily on most voters' minds than longer-term but important issues like climate change, something you can sort of ignore if you try, but which might actually determine whether any of us are still around in 50 years' time.

A third factor was a live TV debate earlier this week involving all the party leaders. All the others were fumbling around for answers trying their best not to tell the truth whilst not actually lying, and thus they came across as weak-minded. Wilders was direct and gave straight answers. Straight answers that were total made-up lies and bullshit of course, but as we know, as with Johnson, Trump et al, tell people whatever it is you think they want to hear boldly enough, and sufficient numbers of gullible folk will lap it up and vote for you. There were so many undecided people even at that late stage that this one event almost certainly was the clincher.

What happens now is probably down to the VVD in my opinion, and whether Wilders can change their stated minds and get them to work with him. I don't think any of the larger centre and left parties will work with him (certainly not the party I voted for yesterday, GL/PvdA, or D66, almost certainly not NSC*), so without VVD support he cannot form a majority.

Likewise, a centre-left-right coalition would also need VVD support to form a government. Probably whoever does form a government (and I sincerely hope it isn't Wilders), they will need to involve the BBB farmers' party in some way, since the BBB control the upper house, so getting any legislation passed without them will be tricky...

Hopefully the negotiations will be complicated and last the full four-year cycle, then we can vote them back out again without them causing too much damage.

(*that's New Social Contract btw, not North Stand Chat...)

I always thought of VVD as being centrist. That's where he normally plays for Netherlands and Liverpool. I wasn't aware he was joining the Dutch government.

What with him and NSC being involved this morning is a little surreal.

 

[Trufflehound]

I always thought of VVD as being centrist. That's where he normally plays for Netherlands and Liverpool. I wasn't aware he was joining the Dutch government.

Not out of the question. George Weah got to be president of Liberia...

 

[Ali_rrr]

Out of interest, did you (or any of the other NL-based NSC'ers for that matter) get a vote yesterday, or am I the only one with Dutch nationality?

I think you're the only one. I have other EU nationalities so I don't really need a Dutch passport (other than to vote). I would've gone PvDA or D66 if I could have.

 

[The Clamp]

A lot of people here would vociferously agree with you on that, but at the same time they will spew anti-Islamic nonsense without thinking about it, they believe innocently, and not see the connection...

Interesting. Not a country I know a lot about beyond going there a couple of times in my twenties to get spangled on shrooms

 

[Trufflehound]

Interesting. Not a country I know a lot about beyond going there a couple of times in my twenties to get spangled on shrooms

Remember that this is also a country where, around this time of year, the streets fill with people in blackface handing out sweets to children, and (while the debate is at least now raging, which it wasn't until a few years ago), a very significant portion of the population will still swear adamantly that there is nothing racist in this behaviour...

They (not everyone, but a lot of people) simply don't get it...

 

[The Clamp]

Remember that this is also a country where, around this time of year, the streets fill with people in blackface handing out sweets to children, and (while the debate is at least now raging, which it wasn't until a few years ago), a very significant portion of the population will still swear adamantly that there is nothing racist in this behaviour...

Very odd behaviour and I suppose it’s in these once “harmless” traditions, the hidden but deep seated bigotry lies.

 

[A1X]

This is the very reasoning which causes people to vote for extreme options. Like when Brown dismissed a woman on the campaign trail as a “bigoted woman” for asking a perfectly reasonable question any politician should be able to easily field.

Sorry but I will fundamentally disagree with the Gordon Brown comment. Her complaint was about immigrants claiming benefits, something they could not do at the time (and still cannot in the circumstances she was complaining about). Brown handled it badly, and was stitched up by a Murdoch-backed (at the time) media organisation in Sky News leaving his microphone on in private, but she was fundamentally wrong. Facts matter, and she was not using them.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So the NSC Party is holding the balance of power. They have interesting policies:

-Absolute zero tolerance of spelling errors in all
-Polls for all key decisions- including the national condiment
-Prejudice towards all referees
-Your latest book read must be disclosed and registered
-Any new MP must disclose a picture of their wife/girlfriend/ boyfriend/husband/both for a verdict on their suitability
-An additional poll on the above

I wonder who the ministers are.

When a perfectly reasonable question is asked quickly decend into name-calling and/or puns.

 

[sydney]

also in Argentina.

 

[Trufflehound]

When a perfectly reasonable question is asked quickly decend into name-calling and/or puns.

We could descend into Dutch vis puns. That would quickly have other fish pun threads paling into insignificance

 

[Simster]

So the Dutch have naively voted for a party that blames Islam for a lot of their ills. He has stood back from banning the Koran already though. Interesting to see how this plays out.

Regardless, I see the Dutch weren't sufficiently thick/hoodwinked to vote for some sort of Nexit nonsense anyway. Only the British thickets fall for that one.

 

[warmleyseagull]

I voted for yesterday, GL/PvdA, or D66,

That inadvertently summarises the whole problem of PR or variants thereof. I thought that might have been a new drug with alternative names.

 

[Trufflehound]

also in Argentina.

The significant difference is that their nutjob has now taken over (or will have as soon as he's inaugurated), and can start implementing his nutjob policies with abandon.

Our nutjob must now enter into months of delicate coalition negotiations that may never succeed, and even if they do they will probably entail him having to water down the worst of his nutjob policies to get them accepted by others...

 

[Trufflehound]

That inadvertently summarises the whole problem of PR or variants thereof. I thought that might have been a new drug with alternative names.

Sorry to disappoint. The Dutch just love their acronyms and abbreviations:

GL = Groen Links = Green Left
PvdA = Partij van de Arbeid = Labour Party
D66 = Democrats 66 - the 66 is just the year in which they were founded...

 

[Bakero]

There is abject poverty everywhere - not just in a few towns or ‘up North’. Where I live, xenophobia and a violent antipathy to immigrants is rife; overt racism is rife; it has a largely school-only educated population of blue collar workers; inflated by the influx of Eastern Europeans who prior to Brexit, were the largest demographic. It is one of the most socially deprived areas in the Country, with 2 GP surgeries for 26,000 people with a waiting list of at least 4 weeks, public transport in rural areas has all but collapsed, and the High Street is full of Pound Shops and porn shops.

I know you said it's a poor area but surely with mobile internet people can find their grumble online.

 

[Zeberdi]

I know you said it's a poor area but surely with mobile internet people can find their grumble online.

I meant ‘pawn’ of course

 

[Bakero]

I meant ‘pawn’ of course

I know