Falmer - would be setting a precedent?

[Dick Knights Mumm]

He might believe that, but it is NOT a serious option.

Even if Brighton & Hove City Council wanted to allow a stadium at Waterhall, they wouldn't be allowed to let us have one.

For a start, by the time any application was prepared, the City Council won't be the Planning Authority for Waterhall. Planning powers will transfer to the new South Downs National Park Authority.

Secondly, a stadium at Waterhall is ruled out by the Local Plan.

Thirdly, it would attract objections from far more people than have objected to Falmer and the government would be bound to call it in for a long Public Inquiry.

Fourthly, the Club doesn't want to spend a further £3 million or so on the cost of failing to get a stadium at Waterhall.

Yes yes yes, all very interesting I am sure, but what are the real reasons ? Pat Saward knows more than he is letting on.

 

[Lady Bracknell]

Originally posted by BensGrandad
It wasn't Barry LLoyd and I will not answer to any other managers names irrespective of whether you guess rightly or not

Then presumably you now plan to sit down. And shut up.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Pat Saward? You're having a laugh. It's Jimmy Case.

Or possibly Brian Clough.

 

[teaboy]

Our Inquiry was NOT about finding a site for a Stadium for the Albion. It was about whether this particular development was acceptable in a nationally designated AONB. In other words, did it meet the national policy requirement that major developments in an AONB must meet the following criteria?

1. That the development was in the national interest;

2. That no other suitable site was available;

3. That the development would bring significant economic and social benefits;

4. That the environmental impact of the development can be mitigated.

Would these criteria have been the same for any site (eg Waterhall)? Or is that not an AONB? IF the council had given permission to build at Waterhall (which they won't - ever) would the scheme have gone through a similar public enquiry?

As I don't understand planning law, or know what the Local Plan says about the site can anyone give any answers? And would more pressure on the council from about 1995 onwards have made them change their minds?

Too late to make a difference now, but just being curious.

 

[BensGrandad]

Before you all get carried away with slagging me off the statement was made to me in my pub by a then manager of BHA whether or not he was serious or just making the comment as a flippant remark only he knows. I will respect his wishes to remain secret but it does leave one to consider about the delays and the fact that everybody is expecting a Yes from JP, me included.

MP has always maintained, for obvious reasons, that there isn't a plan B.

Should JP say NO will the club go out of existence when their lease at Withdean finishes or will we start all over again at square one? If their is no alternative ground why are we bothering to compete in The Championship?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

teaboy - you will get a smack. I mean, a non-physical punishment.

*phew*

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Teaboy -

Waterhall is in the AONB. Once the Public Inquiry into the National Park boundaries is finished and Alun Michael (the Minister) takes his formal decision, it will also be in the future National Park (since all of the relevant parties, including the City Council, support National Park designation for Waterhall).

The criteria for development in a National Park is pretty much the same as an AONB (although the local Planning Authority will be a different one, with a much stronger remit to resist major development).

The City Council is legally obliged to follow its own Local Plan when considering planning applications. The current Local Plan would rule Waterhall out. The new Local Plan (which has yet to be formally adopted by the Council) will definitely rule Waterhall out.

Way back in 1995, Waterhall wasn't in the frame. Bellotti and Archer favoured Toads Hole Valley (which was always a non-starter). Hove Borough Council eventually ruled Toads Hole Valley out, because Bellotti failed to deliver the required Environmental Impact Assessment (and a lot else). Brighton Borough Council had no policy at all - basically because the Club was based in Hove.



DKM -

Physical violence doesn't work. Trust me on this one.

 

[b.w.2.]

We don't have a decision from 2 Jags yet, so why should we make a decsion to stop playing in The Championship?... you are talking utter nonsense, BG...

Needlesss to say, if we get a "No" on Falmer, then we are seriously fcuked... the club board will take stock if the dreaded happens... let's hope it doesn't happen, and try not to ask daft questions before that time...

 

[Storer68]

Also Bens Grandad, I take it Greg will be financing the waterhall venture then?

You really are a shit stirrer. In fact. you make FG seems positively positive.

Whats next then? barry coming back to manage is he?

blimey, next you'll have Bellotti and his colouring pencils submitting a planning application there.............

 

[BensGrandad]

It is quite amazing how people are able to completly misconstrue written word.

I have never said we shouldn't compete in the Championship what I am saying but it is probably too difficult for people to understand is THE CLUB MUST HAVE A PLAN B in case the answer is NO despite what MP says. The alternative if they do not makes the past 5 years worth nothing.

It doesn't take an intelligent person, so I thought, but I am obviously wrong, to realise that the implication from the unnamed manager was that if Falmer was rejected by JP he would suggest an acceptable alternative site, which the club would then investigate.

Life is difficult sometimes I wish I had gone to University to learn to read and understand.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

But why shouldn't we compete in the championship - it doesn't make sense.

 

[BensGrandad]

This is getting hard work!!

IF;

1. JP says NO
2. We have no plan B

The club will cease to function in its present format due to the high costs of Withdean.

SO:

We are going to play in the Championship next season which suggests that the club DO have contigency plans in case of a NO otherwise they would be prepared to let the club just tick along without the pressures of a higher division with greater expenses and outlays.

If I was in DK or MP position and I KNEW we had no contingency plans I would be happy for us to just muddle on until I could either sell the club or drain it and go bankrupt. Then again I am not a business man!!

 

[Albionite83]

To build on a greenfield site, you first have to show that there are NO suitable brownfield sites available. There would be suitable brownfield sites for most football clubs in this country. We are caught between the sea and the Downs, which is why Falmer (part brownfield, part greenfield) has been chosen.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

If I was in DK or MP position and I KNEW we had no contingency plans I would be happy for us to just muddle on until I could either sell the club or drain it and go bankrupt.

I wake up every day and give thanks that people like you don't run the Albion.

This is a DISGRACEFUL slur on the people who saved the club in 1997.

DK doesn't have the option of "draining it", like Archer did. What non-playing assets does the club have - apart from Plan A?

The other thing I'm sure of is that DK ain't in the business of draining the Club.

If the Board ever get round to selling the Club, they won't allow it to go to people who think a Plan B can be built on the basis of conversations they've had with an anonymous ex-manager in a pub.

 

[Curious Orange]

We are going to play in the Championship next season which suggests that the club DO have contigency plans in case of a NO otherwise they would be prepared to let the club just tick along without the pressures of a higher division with greater expenses and outlays.

And there was me thinking that we were playing in the Championship because we were fortunate enough to get promoted. You make it sound as if the board would actively consider trying not to get promoted based on a possible no decision. What sort of argument is that that they must therefore have a contingency?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

So we shouldn't be competing in the championship then.

 

[BensGrandad]

Lets put this to rest as nobody else appears to see my point I will state it for the last time in that hope that somebody is intelligent enough to understand it. There is no slur on either DK or MP as suggested by Lord B.

For DK and MP to expect us to believe that the club have not got a plan B or made contingency plans in case of a No from JP is to treat us all as fools, or they have knowledge that the plan is definitely going to be approved.

The alternative as we have been told many times is the club will fold if left to play at Withdean.

If that was the case why should DK and MP want us to get promoted and incurr greater costs it would be easier to take a second option and just muddle through until the decision is made and then wind the club or do whatever in 12 months time.

Nothing scandalous or dishonest in doing that just the result of a 'fait a compile' due to circumstances beyond their control.

The fact that we have been promoted and are going to play in The Championship all points to the fact that we shall either get Falmer or another application for another site will be submitted very shortly after the refusal of Falmer.

Is that simple enough for you all?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I'm confused. We should have stayed in Division One. Or was it Two.

Nurse !

 

[fatbadger]

BensGrandad - it is because people on this board are bright enough to see through the shit you posted that you cannot get away with this. Your original argument was NOT that the club have a contingency plan (we all hope and expect that they do), but that what anybody else would think was a contingency plan is actually their main plan. Post hoc justifications and a twisting of your argument does not hide this - so don't call LordB or anybody else not 'intelligent enough to understand it' when they understood what you said perfectly well. You are the thick one - posting crap and then complaining when somebody calls it crap just because you yourself, apparently, have failed to understand what you posted. So yes, please - put it to bed; indeed, preferably send yourself to your sickbed until you're capable of posting something worthwhile.

 

[BensGrandad]

Please God help Me!!!

The fact that we have been promoted suggests that either the club KNOW we are going to get permission for Falmer or they have another site up their sleeves ready to submit another application if needed.