[Football] FA diversity code

[Cornwallboy]

No doubt I'll be flamed for posting this, but how about a code that is based on meritocracy when appointing people to coaching and admin posts within football and not one based on race and gender? FWIW I'd be happy to see the Albion managed by a disabled, Muslim, transgender if it meant we are doing well in the PL and making progress in the various cup competitions.

Clubs collectively fail to meet diversity targets

Clubs signed up to the Football Association's Diversity Code collectively fail to meet any of their recruitment targets over the past year.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[hans kraay fan club]

These. Days.

 

[Mellotron]

No doubt I'll be flamed for posting this, but how about a code that is based on meritocracy when appointing people to coaching and admin posts within football and not one based on race and gender? FWIW I'd be happy to see the Albion managed by a disabled, Muslim, transgender if it meant we are doing well in the PL and making progress in the various cup competitions.

Clubs collectively fail to meet diversity targets

Clubs signed up to the Football Association's Diversity Code collectively fail to meet any of their recruitment targets over the past year.

www.bbc.co.uk

Totally get your viewpoint - the opposing argument is that it is much tougher for people from certain communities to get opportunities in the first place, and that's the reason for something like this.

It SHOULD be a pure meritocracy, but there are plenty of examples across various sports (and society) where this hasn't been the case over the years.

My unqualified view, anyway.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No doubt I'll be flamed for posting this, but how about a code that is based on meritocracy when appointing people to coaching and admin posts within football and not one based on race and gender? FWIW I'd be happy to see the Albion managed by a disabled, Muslim, transgender if it meant we are doing well in the PL and making progress in the various cup competitions.

Clubs collectively fail to meet diversity targets

Clubs signed up to the Football Association's Diversity Code collectively fail to meet any of their recruitment targets over the past year.

www.bbc.co.uk

What currently happens then ?

 

[Hastings gull]

No doubt I'll be flamed for posting this, but how about a code that is based on meritocracy when appointing people to coaching and admin posts within football and not one based on race and gender? FWIW I'd be happy to see the Albion managed by a disabled, Muslim, transgender if it meant we are doing well in the PL and making progress in the various cup competitions.

Clubs collectively fail to meet diversity targets

Clubs signed up to the Football Association's Diversity Code collectively fail to meet any of their recruitment targets over the past year.

www.bbc.co.uk

exactly -purely on merit irrespective of other pressures.

 

[Guinness Boy]

No doubt I'll be flamed for posting this, but how about a code that is based on meritocracy when appointing people to coaching and admin posts within football and not one based on race and gender? FWIW I'd be happy to see the Albion managed by a disabled, Muslim, transgender if it meant we are doing well in the PL and making progress in the various cup competitions.

Clubs collectively fail to meet diversity targets

Clubs signed up to the Football Association's Diversity Code collectively fail to meet any of their recruitment targets over the past year.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's a shame you've phrased this so confrontationally and are obviously looking for a fight, because there's a serious issue to be discussed.

Anecdotally there are certainly organisations struggling out there because they've put too much budget into EDI or recruited the right type of person instead of the right people. My wife works for one of them.

However, all the time the other side of the argument is deliberately argumentative and divisive, using sad sub-Daily Mail tropes like 'disabled Muslim transgender', people will assume the only people opposed to the the way EDI is being implemented in this country are repetitive far right trolls looking for an argument after their afternoon can of Stella.

 

[Cornwallboy]

It's a shame you've phrased this so confrontationally and are obviously looking for a fight, because there's a serious issue to be discussed.

Anecdotally there are certainly organisations struggling out there because they've put too much budget into EDI or recruited the right type of person instead of the right people. My wife works for one of them.

However, all the time the other side of the argument is deliberately argumentative and divisive, using sad sub-Daily Mail tropes like 'disabled Muslim transgender', people will assume the only people opposed to the the way EDI is being implemented in this country are repetitive far right trolls looking for an argument after their afternoon can of Stella.

I can assure you I'm not looking for a fight and nor have I drunk any alcohol today. I agree it is a serious matter to be discussed hence why I started the thread. I find your manner extremely patronising but not unexpected.

I cannot see what is wrong with my view that football clubs should be able to recruit based on who they feel is the best person to fill the position. I think it's a very reasonable view. Maybe not for NSC.

I must've missed your post when RDZ and his backroom staff were appointed questioning whether he was the correct appointment as he is not female or BAME

 

[clapham_gull]

No doubt I'll be flamed for posting this, but how about a code that is based on meritocracy when appointing people to coaching and admin posts within football and not one based on race and gender? FWIW I'd be happy to see the Albion managed by a disabled, Muslim, transgender if it meant we are doing well in the PL and making progress in the various cup competitions.

Clubs collectively fail to meet diversity targets

Clubs signed up to the Football Association's Diversity Code collectively fail to meet any of their recruitment targets over the past year.

www.bbc.co.uk

You're not allowed to post that on a forum these days....

 

[Super Steve Earle]

It's a shame you've phrased this so confrontationally and are obviously looking for a fight, because there's a serious issue to be discussed.

Anecdotally there are certainly organisations struggling out there because they've put too much budget into EDI or recruited the right type of person instead of the right people. My wife works for one of them.

However, all the time the other side of the argument is deliberately argumentative and divisive, using sad sub-Daily Mail tropes like 'disabled Muslim transgender', people will assume the only people opposed to the the way EDI is being implemented in this country are repetitive far right trolls looking for an argument after their afternoon can of Stella.

Talking of divisive, when was the last time the Daily Mail referred to disabled Muslim transgender people? I don't read the Daily Mail, but a lot of people do and the only tired trope is suggesting that's what is regularly in the Daily Mail.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Talking of divisive, when was the last time the Daily Mail referred to disabled Muslim transgender people? I don't read the Daily Mail, but a lot of people do and the only tired trope is suggesting that's what is regularly in the Daily Mail.

Maybe not in one story, but they are a bit obsessed with Muslims and transgender folk which is the point being made.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Talking of divisive, when was the last time the Daily Mail referred to disabled Muslim transgender people? I don't read the Daily Mail, but a lot of people do and the only tired trope is suggesting that's what is regularly in the Daily Mail.

What HT said, plus Richard Littlepenis, Daily Mail columnist, plus their absolutely awful online comments.

 

[Baldseagull]

I can assure you I'm not looking for a fight and nor have I drunk any alcohol today. I agree it is a serious matter to be discussed hence why I started the thread. I find your manner extremely patronising but not unexpected.

I cannot see what is wrong with my view that football clubs should be able to recruit based on who they feel is the best person to fill the position. I think it's a very reasonable view. Maybe not for NSC.

I must've missed your post when RDZ and his backroom staff were appointed questioning whether he was the correct appointment as he is not female or BAME

They can, and they do, the targets are just targets, no one is fined or punished for not hitting them, you try and hit them, the real point is to ask why you have not hit a target when you don't. It might be that no one suitable from the target group applied, fair enough, you might think, but then you should be asking why no one suitable applied. My understanding is that there are fewer black players taking coaching badges at the end of their careers, I don't know why, but these targets of appointments have highlighted that, it seems likely that issue needs addressing first, but knowing that clubs have targets to appoint more black and female staff might be the encouragement that is needed to get more black players to try coaching.

You are not getting stick for thinking it should be a meritocracy, you are getting a bit for suggesting targets are trumping that, and that aiming to improve diversity is a hindrance to the aim of best person for the job, it isn't. Unless you believe that all the best people are white men, there must be something wrong if coaching is disproportionally white and male, and that suggests football is probably missing out on some of the best people.

 

[Poojah]

To be fair, I think the principle of meritocracy makes a lot of sense - on the surface. The problem with it is, the idea of someone being "the best" in the here and now misses a lot of things.

I'm a straight, white, atheist, male. That's about as easy as it gets, in terms of being free from prejudice or unconscious bias, and it's not something I ever really took stock of until I was in my 30s. Start to change one or more of those parameters, and you increase the potential for discrimination, conscious or unconscious, and life begins to get more difficult, from very early on in life. With each parameter you change, gay instead of straight, black instead of white, muslim instead of atheist, female instead of male, the incline of life's treadmill ramps up. Opportunities become fewer, and harder to bring to fruition when they present themselves.

In practical, real life teams (thinking more broadly than just football), it's quite possible that a black man, or a gay woman, interviewing for a senior role in their late 30s or early 40s, appears slightly less polished than their white, male counterpart not because of innate differences in talent or ability, but because life has afforded more opportunities, and been easier in general, in large part due to their demographic profile. Therefore you do have to think about this when making a call. The best person for the job in that moment isn't always the right person to give it to in that moment.

I've found myself having to make choices like this over the years, and it's never as easy in practice as it is in a training environment. I've never liked playing things by the book anyway, preferring to go off gut feel, but this is what quotas, as arbitrary as they seem, are for. They might seem a pretty blunt instrument in tackling a deeply societal problem, but until we find a better solution, or conscious and unconscious bias disappears (and that ain't happening in my lifetime), they're as good as anything we've got.

I should add that socioeconomic background should also play a part in the consideration set, too, but that's slightly less relevant in a footballing context.

 

[Eeyore]

You're not allowed to post that on a forum these days....

You go thrown into jail these days if you say you have concerns about EDI implementation.

 

[The Optimist]

No doubt I'll be flamed for posting this, but how about a code that is based on meritocracy when appointing people to coaching and admin posts within football and not one based on race and gender? FWIW I'd be happy to see the Albion managed by a disabled, Muslim, transgender if it meant we are doing well in the PL and making progress in the various cup competitions.

Clubs collectively fail to meet diversity targets

Clubs signed up to the Football Association's Diversity Code collectively fail to meet any of their recruitment targets over the past year.

www.bbc.co.uk

If we had a true meritocracy then there would be diversity. Take football managers in England. Unless there is some inherent reason why white men make better managers than any other race then the lack of diversity suggests that clubs are ignoring other races and that is not a meritocracy.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

comments deleted - thread going no where - shame it’s an important issue.

Whereas all the other threads on NSC are serenely progressing towards consensus and enlightenment.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No doubt I'll be flamed for posting this, but how about a code that is based on meritocracy when appointing people to coaching and admin posts within football and not one based on race and gender? FWIW I'd be happy to see the Albion managed by a disabled, Muslim, transgender if it meant we are doing well in the PL and making progress in the various cup competitions.

Clubs collectively fail to meet diversity targets

Clubs signed up to the Football Association's Diversity Code collectively fail to meet any of their recruitment targets over the past year.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is going to go Really Well, I predict.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

They can, and they do, the targets are just targets, no one is fined or punished for not hitting them, you try and hit them, the real point is to ask why you have not hit a target when you don't. It might be that no one suitable from the target group applied, fair enough, you might think, but then you should be asking why no one suitable applied. My understanding is that there are fewer black players taking coaching badges at the end of their careers, I don't know why, but these targets of appointments have highlighted that, it seems likely that issue needs addressing first, but knowing that clubs have targets to appoint more black and female staff might be the encouragement that is needed to get more black players to try coaching.

You are not getting stick for thinking it should be a meritocracy, you are getting a bit for suggesting targets are trumping that, and that aiming to improve diversity is a hindrance to the aim of best person for the job, it isn't. Unless you believe that all the best people are white men, there must be something wrong if coaching is disproportionally white and male, and that suggests football is probably missing out on some of the best people.

Eloquent, nuanced and correct

 

[beorhthelm]

what's disappointing is no one reflecting on how well things are going with the diversity drive. an arbitary target is missed by few % and it makes for a headline.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

enjoy the discussion (if that’s what you dropped in for)

I dropped in for a distraction from reading a report about actual shit.
Well, a pipe that's full of actual shit. The pipe is the important part, but the photos are dominated by the shit contained within it.