[Misc] F1 2021

[Audax]

The FIA routinely failed to clip their wings early in the season.

Wrong. The FIA made significant changes to the tests they do on the rear wings as a result of the noise Merc made. Red Bull were forced (along with other teams) to change their wing design as a result.

Merc might have now found a different loophole in the testing that they are exploiting.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

The Mercs are well off MV’s pace in 1st practice. Can’t see them turning the engines up until qualifying.

The Mercs appear to have got faster with each session. Neither LH or MV completely outstripping their team mates either, if anything MV struggling compared to Perez in this session. Qualifying could be really interesting.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Gotcha. Just trolling. Thought as much. Best ignored it seems.

Ok, let me help you out. You start off by saying i repeat the same old arguments and then you go on to repeat the same old arguments. Its a bit dull. Someone isn't a troll because they hold a different view than you. My F1 views have been built up over 40 years and im good with them, i dont expect others to agree and thats fine. And now i also remember why you were the first person on here i blocked, and your back on it

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Wrong. The FIA made significant changes to the tests they do on the rear wings as a result of the noise Merc made. Red Bull were forced (along with other teams) to change their wing design as a result.

Merc might have now found a different loophole in the testing that they are exploiting.

Yes, as I recall the rule didn't change as such, but they introduced a load test that the rear wing couldn't deflect as part of an existing rule that only the sprung part of the car can significantly move. RB aren't protesting as the Merc was tested under these loadings in Brazil, to the extent Mercedes said they tested their wing to 3x the loading of the FIA test.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Red Bull 1/2 second off the pace based on FP3

Verstappen’s dodgy wobbling rear wing possibly didn’t help them.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Ok, let me help you out. You start off by saying i repeat the same old arguments and then you go on to repeat the same old arguments. Its a bit dull. Someone isn't a troll because they hold a different view than you. My F1 views have been built up over 40 years and im good with them, i dont expect others to agree and thats fine. And now i also remember why you were the first person on here i blocked, and your back on it

No, you just call everyone with a different view to you as being a Lewis Fan Boy on a bandwagon. I really don't care you hold a different view, plenty of others have agreed it shouldn't have been a penalty, what I object to is you telling everyone else that does disagree that they aren't objective and must be Lewis fanboys.

In turn, I've not insulted you, got personal in anyway whatsoever. I'm delighted to be blocked by you as it happens, you can't debate anything with someone who has their fingers in their ears going la la la la la, this reply is for everyone else I happily engage with on this thread including people I disagree with, but don't feel the need to say they lack objectivity because of it.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Red Bull 1/2 second off the pace based on FP3

Verstappen’s dodgy wobbling rear wing possibly didn’t help them.

Where has Gasly found that pace in the Alpha!? He is nearly a second faster than their other car. Be interesting to see if he manages something special in qualifying.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

It's amazing how Bottas get speed out of a bang-average car.

Surely he has to be the real GOAT?

If only Merc had backed him, but that was never going to happen.

 

[A1X]

Where has Gasly found that pace in the Alpha!? He is nearly a second faster than their other car. Be interesting to see if he manages something special in qualifying.

Is he finding something or is Tsunoda just crap?

(I get that it’s almost certainly both)

 

[Audax]

Yes, as I recall the rule didn't change as such, but they introduced a load test that the rear wing couldn't deflect as part of an existing rule that only the sprung part of the car can significantly move. RB aren't protesting as the Merc was tested under these loadings in Brazil, to the extent Mercedes said they tested their wing to 3x the loading of the FIA test.

Red Bull will wait before protesting in order to have the maximum impact. It's a bit of a nuclear option and they want to a) be in the best position to prove Merc are doing something dodgy and b) extract the most benefit from a successful protest. So I would expect any protest to be made *after* the race, as any post-race penalty will have the biggest impact on Hamilton.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Red Bull will wait before protesting in order to have the maximum impact. It's a bit of a nuclear option and they want to a) be in the best position to prove Merc are doing something dodgy and b) extract the most benefit from a successful protest. So I would expect any protest to be made *after* the race, as any post-race penalty will have the biggest impact on Hamilton.

The other issue being their own moveable bit of wing in the DRS section is flapping about so much they need to repair it multiple times, and there is potentially as big problems with their rear wing design complying as it is for Mercedes, I mean their 'flap' really is putting the flap into flapping! Could be a case of 'doth thou not protest too much?'.

 

[rogersix]

It's amazing how Bottas get speed out of a bang-average car.

Surely he has to be the real GOAT?

If only Merc had backed him, but that was never going to happen.

sarcasm, clever stuff!

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Yes, as I recall the rule didn't change as such, but they introduced a load test that the rear wing couldn't deflect as part of an existing rule that only the sprung part of the car can significantly move. RB aren't protesting as the Merc was tested under these loadings in Brazil, to the extent Mercedes said they tested their wing to 3x the loading of the FIA test.

Unless the test load is tiny in comparison to the sort of force it undergoes during a race (which raises other questions as to how useful it is as a test), I'd be amazed if that were true, given the sort of fine lines and incremental gains people look for in F1.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Unless the test load is tiny in comparison to the sort of force it undergoes during a race (which raises other questions as to how useful it is as a test), I'd be amazed if that were true, given the sort of fine lines and incremental gains people look for in F1.

The testing is set out here. I have no real way of knowing how say 200N compares to the real race vertical loading on the wing.

Currently the FIA conducts two tests, one vertical and one horizontal, to ensure that rear wings do not flex too much.

The first test demands that the rear wing must deflect no more than 7mm horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally.

The second test demands that the rear wing can deflect no more than 2mm vertically when a 200N load is applied vertically.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

The testing is set out here. I have no real way of knowing how say 200N compares to the real race vertical loading on the wing.

Currently the FIA conducts two tests, one vertical and one horizontal, to ensure that rear wings do not flex too much.

The first test demands that the rear wing must deflect no more than 7mm horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally.

The second test demands that the rear wing can deflect no more than 2mm vertically when a 200N load is applied vertically.

200N is about 20kg. You can convert by multiplying a mass in kg by 9.81m/s[SUP]2[/SUP] (or just by 10 if you're a normal person).

Not sure what the downforce on a rear wing is but I'd always been under the impression it was much more than that at full speed.

It sounds odd to me that they'd bother to test for more than they need to, since generally if you know exactly what the force is you save material and weight by just designing to it, which is one of the major differences between automotive or aeronautical engineering compared to civil engineering. I'd guess that either a) they've made it up to sound good or b) the test has no serious relation to what they actually design the car for.

 

[A1X]

There’s some peak Karen Horner going on right now on Sky

 

[Audax]

The testing is set out here. I have no real way of knowing how say 200N compares to the real race vertical loading on the wing.

Currently the FIA conducts two tests, one vertical and one horizontal, to ensure that rear wings do not flex too much.

The first test demands that the rear wing must deflect no more than 7mm horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally.

The second test demands that the rear wing can deflect no more than 2mm vertically when a 200N load is applied vertically.

That's the old test that got superceded earlier this year by a beefed up version (as well as addition of stickers to the wings so that flex can be monitored from the onboard cameras). However, I believe even the new test doesn't cover what Red Bull thinks Mercedes are doing. That's because the test only checks if the *entire wing* flexes, while Red Bull's theory is that Mercedes are flexing the main (lower) element of the rear wing in order to cause the slot gap between the two elements to be wider than the rules stipulate (which confers a drag reduction benefit on the straights when it would be flexed open).

Red Bull's theory is based on seeing what they believe to be scoring marks on the Merc endplates that they think are a smoking gun that the element is flexing. Merc says they aren't scoring marks. Either way, apparently the new stickers monitoring system doesn't work very well on the lower main element. It was also interesting the choice of words Wolff used when challenged on it: he essentially just said "it's within the allowance" (which was the same defence Red Bull used earlier this year, but Merc still convinced the FIA to change the test and thus force Red Bull [and others] to change their wing).

 

[banjo]

There’s some peak Karen Horner going on right now on Sky

I wish someone (Toto) would chin him.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

is it because you can't tolerate differing opinions?

sarcasm, clever stuff!

sarcasm, clever stuff!

Are you always going to troll me

Sit back and enjoy the qualifying.

 

[rogersix]

sarcasm, clever stuff!



Are you always going to troll me

Sit back and enjoy the qualifying.

not trolling, merely replying in kind