The full story is yet to come out (and may never will), but if you look for it there's plenty of noise out there that Lewis not winning that rookie-season title had more to do with Max Mosley vs Ron Dennis politics than it did Lewis. There were some odd decisions by the McLaren pitwall in the last two races of that season, there's a theory out there that giving Kimi the best shot at snatching the title was the price of avoiding a full ban from the following season for the spygate thing.
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[Other Sport] F1 2020
- Thread starter Bozza
- Start date
The full story is yet to come out (and may never will), but if you look for it there's plenty of noise out there that Lewis not winning that rookie-season title had more to do with Max Mosley vs Ron Dennis politics than it did Lewis. There were some odd decisions by the McLaren pitwall in the last two races of that season, there's a theory out there that giving Kimi the best shot at snatching the title was the price of avoiding a full ban from the following season for the spygate thing.
I've encountered more than my fair share of F1 and top drawer pro drivers in recent years, at historic events. when you see them drive old crates on the limit, so well, it really highlights how talented most of them are. Not all, but most. Some are one trick ponies, ( M Schumacher was only good in F1, Derek Bell was pants in single seaters) some of them can drive the wheels of anything. Moss and Clark being the obvious ones, but I've seen DC in an old Merc at Goodwood, very impressive. MArk Blundell is another.
It shouldn't make you laugh. Russell came into that race with the worst possible preparation for taking on the challenge, and yet he still rose to it and embarrassed Bottas. I think a Hamilton / Russell pairing at Mercedes for 2022 would be very, very good. I'd expect Hamilton to come out top, but I'd also expect him to have a far harder time of it than he has against Bottas and Rosberg (noting that Rosberg, as you rightly say, only won that title through Hamilton's poor reliability that season).
Russell had to deal with all of the following:
- Cockpit too small - he had to wear size 10 boots (normally 11), and his knees weren't positioned optimally either. His head was higher than it should have been as well, which affects the aerodynamics.
- He'd already entrenched "muscle memory" on how to get through the Turn 1, 2, 3 complex from the previous weekend in the Williams, so he wasn't just learning a new car - he was unlearning something that had already become second nature. Time lost in turn 1 is solely why he didn't get pole.
- He had to learn a new steering wheel layout, as the Williams and Mercedes layouts are different.
- The moulded seat he used was from a couple years ago, not a current fresh one optimised for both the current car and his current body shape.
Make no mistake - Russell's performance in that one-off race was very, very impressive. There's a very good reason why even Bottas was saying the outcome of last weekend didn't look good for him. Last weekend will almost certainly have ended Bottas' career at Mercedes. 2021 will be his final season there, because 2022 his seat will go to Russell. The only hope Bottas has of keeping his seat is if Hamilton retires.
Hard to say when he got into F1 with very little junior career. 1990 he won the German F3 title and Macau. So he was good in an F3 car. That year he also won a Sportscar race and finished 5th in the drivers classification despite only starting 3 of the races (for 1 win and 2 more podiums). 1991 he got another Sportscar win, but the team he was with suffered reliability issues and the car he drove only finished 2 races in the entire season. Nevertheless, his performances in Sportscars were enough to get him noticed and picked up for F1.
What I would say about Michael Schumacher is that I don't think he was ever as naturally talented as, say, Senna, or Hamilton, or Max Verstappen. But what he was probably the very best at was doing the hard work to make sure that he was able to get the very best out of himself and his car in every single session of a race weekend. Comparing to the drivers we have on the grid today, most would agree that Hamilton and Verstappen are the best pair (as much as I hate saying that as a Ricciardo fan). Hamilton, for me, sits somewhere between a Senna and a M Schumacher. More natural talent than Schu but less the Senna, and more work ethic than Senna but less than Schu. Verstappen is more out of the Senna frame - he's so naturally talented, but he loses out to Hamilton when it comes to the thinking side of the sport.
And I say all of that as someone who was never a Schumacher fan - I always found him too far on the arrogant side. I generally preferred a driver at either McLaren or Williams through that era, and of course as an Aussie I backed Webber (even though he was never WDC material except for maybe 2010 if he'd kept his head through the second half of the season and not binned it in Korea).
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Lewis and Riccardo both set sub 1:43 times in a star of a reasonably priced car didn’t they. I say this as I’m probably more qualified than most to comment as I never miss an episode of TG.
We've always had drivers like that, going back, Graham Hill got good results despite not being the best natural driver, certainly compared to the likes of Clark. but working hard and being intelligent about it, being a good mechanic and having an understanding of your weapon in those days helped no end.
The cars are so good now the pro's/cons of driving styles seem to be less relevant, its a more refined specialised job which clearly rewards thoos with an infinite attention to detail.
What did the (various) Stigs do ?
I think there's still scope for the driving style to play a part. For example, Vettel hasn't forgotten how to drive a car fast ... but I always had my doubts about his ability to adapt to a car unsuited to his specific driving style, and I think he poor seasons lay that bare - the season vs Ricciardo, and this season, both glaring examples where he clearly doesn't like the car and just can't figure out how to drive it as quick as the other guy can. Conversely, I've seen enough evidence now that Leclerc, Ricciardo, Hamilton - those guys can all adapt. Verstappen may turn into another Vettel if Red Bull aren't careful - they've designed a car this season that is so tailored towards Verstappen that they may have gone too far. They've made it impossible for Albon, and Verstappen has been able to tame it mostly but I suspect a slightly less extreme version of the concept and Verstappen would actually get more out of it.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Riccardo 1.42.2
Hamilton 1.42.9
Vettel 1.44.0
Stig 1.44.4
Mansell 1.44.6
Button 1.44.7
Hill 1.46.3
Apparently Riccardo knocked out 1.42.2 a few times he was that good.
looking at that suggests to me Danny Ric and LH were the only 2 really trying. and we know they're both super competitive.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
It’s just a laugh isn’t it. Different days, different conditions in a shit car. I expect they were all trying to drive the arse off it - know what you racing drivers are like.
The Wizard
Well-known member
- Jul 2, 2009
- 18,383
Lewis did that time on a damp track as well! Not that I think star in a reasonably priced car is how we should measure talent... or maybe it is 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wN-ChMp4uR4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wN-ChMp4uR4
D
Deleted member 2719
Guest
There are many British sportspeople I don't like and many that I love, I am very much backing our country, Would you like Scott McGleish and Joey Barton if they were voted world player of the year
With Hamilton it comes from people I have spoken to behind the scenes and others who have met him. I have not heard anyone say they like him off camera.
You could see for years that David Coulthard didn't like him, I know he is mates with Button, but there is a racing respect but nothing else.
The British people I love and back fully, are genuine both sides of the camera and do a great job, like Jackie Stewart, Ken Tyrell and Damon Hill to name a few.
But I feel there is god like worship just because of his world championship, in a lightening car.
Back in the day, a driver or rider would be full on diagnosing, adjusting and performing, without 100's of support team, they were the true hereos.
Hamilton can't help that but he has had the quickest most dominate car available to him and was nurtured by McClaren.
Hamilton has worked at it more than some, but he was not penniless like they make out.
I know a British Karting champion very well, he said when Button came on the scene his dad would buy up about ten engines find out the quickest and make sure Jenson had it and then he would sell the slower ones to the other drivers.
It would have been no different with Hamilton.
Like I have consistently Said Hamilton is good but is he really a god, or are Merc gods for keeping him in the seat for this long with Bottas as competition.
It has made it a two horse race for years now. Although Verstappen has busted his butt to break up the dominance.
Russell scared the living daylights out of Hamilton, I expect Hamilton to drive the arse out of the car this weekend.
I would like to see Hamilton to have the balls and sign elsewhere, but he won't because he knows how special Merc are, and I think George Russell has already stated that.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
I thought he said he'd finished with the subject at least 3 times on the other thread. Now he's started again on this one!
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
I thought he said he'd finished with the subject at least 3 times on the other thread. Now he's started again on this one!
I have decided that he is very high up in motorsport and has more contacts than you can shake a stick at....or he is just bullshitting to try and climb out of the massive hole he has dug for himself
schmunk
"Members"
There are many British sportspeople I don't like and many that I love, I am very much backing our country, Would you like Scott McGleish and Joey Barton if they were voted world player of the year
With Hamilton it comes from people I have spoken to behind the scenes and others who have met him. I have not heard anyone say they like him off camera.
You could see for years that David Coulthard didn't like him, I know he is mates with Button, but there is a racing respect but nothing else.
The British people I love and back fully, are genuine both sides of the camera and do a great job, like Jackie Stewart, Ken Tyrell and Damon Hill to name a few.
But I feel there is god like worship just because of his world championship, in a lightening car.
Back in the day, a driver or rider would be full on diagnosing, adjusting and performing, without 100's of support team, they were the true hereos.
Hamilton can't help that but he has had the quickest most dominate car available to him and was nurtured by McClaren.
Hamilton has worked at it more than some, but he was not penniless like they make out.
I know a British Karting champion very well, he said when Button came on the scene his dad would buy up about ten engines find out the quickest and make sure Jenson had it and then he would sell the slower ones to the other drivers.
It would have been no different with Hamilton.
Like I have consistently Said Hamilton is good but is he really a god, or are Merc gods for keeping him in the seat for this long with Bottas as competition.
It has made it a two horse race for years now. Although Verstappen has busted his butt to break up the dominance.
Russell scared the living daylights out of Hamilton, I expect Hamilton to drive the arse out of the car this weekend.
I would like to see Hamilton to have the balls and sign elsewhere, but he won't because he knows how special Merc are, and I think George Russell has already stated that.
What a load of shite, from start to finish. I was going to go through it line by line to explain each time you're obviously incorrect, but it's just not worth the effort.
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 7,905
I thought he said he'd finished with the subject at least 3 times on the other thread. Now he's started again on this one!
longest flounce i've witnessed, has it been completed?
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 7,905
he's obviously the earl of march then
D
Deleted member 2719
Guest
[
You can mock if you wish, all I have ever said is I don't like lewis Hamilton, hardly a crime.
I would not say I am high up in motorsport, yes I have a few contacts.
To prove my connection in the motorsport world, there are a couple of posters who can confirm this on here. But you will get no more than that from me.
You can mock if you wish, all I have ever said is I don't like lewis Hamilton, hardly a crime.
I would not say I am high up in motorsport, yes I have a few contacts.
To prove my connection in the motorsport world, there are a couple of posters who can confirm this on here. But you will get no more than that from me.