Evolution and Big Bang are lies from Hell

[teaboy]

Evolution does not exist, where did the first life come from?

You seem to confusing evolution and abiogenisis. Understand the debate you're having before starting it next time.

 

[Nibble]

If you believe in evolution, then why aren't you killing people then? Were here for no reason, so why not kill loads of people then, it won't matter.

We are here because we are here. We can make of our lives and our world what we wish and that is the beauty, the reason if you like.

 

[Brovion]

Evolution does not exist, where did the first life come from?

There. I've answered your question, why don't you answer mine?

 

[beorhthelm]

There is only one God, so that is a non-question.

there are an awful lot of people, religious people, who dont agree with that. in fact even those who believe in the Abrahamic God have differing views on him, what he does, what he wants of them.

Evolution does not exist, where did the first life come from?

so where does your god come from, where does he conjure life from? in any case evolution isnt a thing, to exist or not, its an explaination of a process, one that can be demonstrated occuring right now around us. have you got a remotly challenging question or interesting point to make?

 

[Nibble]

It's such a cop-out of life to just blindly believe in God's plan etc. Take some responsibility for your own actions. And as for what the real universe is made of it'svery easy to look up, whats less easy is to find out how God would have made it, I'm assuming he conjured it up out of dreams and Unicorn jizz but I may be wrong here.

 

[BadFish]

I knew there was a reason I didn't get involved in these debates ....

Firstly that there is absolutely no conflict between science and religion. People who desperately cling to ancient texts and claim them to be divinely-inspired truth are, well I'll be polite and call them 'ignorant morons who should shut the f*** up and try opening their minds and using their God-given intelligence'. Big Bang, quantum physics, evolution (plus anything else we haven't discovered yet) are just the tools used by 'God'. They're incontrovertible proof that the bible's wrong, but not proof that 'God' doesn't exist. I know the existence of 'God' can't be proved one way or the other, but in the early days people thought the earth was flat, the night sky was an inverted bowl and that the stars were the light of heaven shining through. We now know that's wrong, but the debate about the existence of 'God' persists, and without wishing to be dramatic, every human discovery proves how incredible the universe is, and IF there is a creator what a fantastic job 'he' did; the truth is far more impressive than Genesis would have us believe.

And even if we as humans could prove 100% that there was no creator, there is nothing outside of our conscious, observable universe .....So what? I freely admit to using religion as a crutch; I love the timbre of the Anglican service, I love going into cathedrals and lighting candles, I love the contemplative silence, I love the spiritual framework of thinking that I'm part of something bigger. I also like the sense of moral and social compass, especially politically, where I believe that 'all men are created equal'. Arguing about details, about whether Jesus really feed 5000 with a few fish I think misses the point.

There. That's the most I've said on this subject on here for about 13 years!

Fair play to you, I can respect what you are saying here and believe this is a very possible explanation (I don't agree but accept it's logic an sense). Creationists and those who take the bible as a literal explanation of what happened at the beginning of our world are too stubborn to shift their thinking to accommodate what is proven scientific fact.

 

[BadFish]

so where does your god come from, where does he conjure life from? in any case evolution isnt a thing, to exist or not, its an explaination of a process, one that can be demonstrated occuring right now around us. have you got a remotly challenging question or interesting point to make?

This question has been asked in a few different guises on this thread and overlooked or ignored so I wouldn't expect and answer to this tough theological question.

 

[Stewart]

"Where did God come from?"

Hmm a tough question..

Basically, I believe that the universe is something which has been created by God. God is outside of Science, outside of time, so it is possible for God to have always have been there, as God is something that can't be explained by our pathetic little minds, whatever God is, it is infinite, too huge, too powerful to get your head round, the universe is just a dimension where God has put us.

 

[Nibble]

"Where did God come from?"

Hmm a tough question..

Basically, I believe that the universe is something which has been created by God. God is outside of Science, outside of time, so it is possible for God to have always have been there, as God is something that can't be explained by our pathetic little minds, whatever God is, it is infinite, too huge, too powerful to get your head round, the universe is just a dimension where God has put us.

Well, how convenient!

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

But whose to say who the most faithful are? I could be the most faithful man in the world, but no one knows that, and all my prayers might be being answered?! Every single christian has a different level of faith. If you pray for something, you may not need it, so therefore, God doesn't give it to you. That is what I think, the sort of system is in place. Christians believe that God has a plan for everyone's life, if a cancer patient dies, despite praying to live, then maybe he wasn't needed on Earth anymore? To you this may sound just stupid, I believe God has a plan for me, and so does every other christian. Most christians KNOW what that plan is, and are cracking on with it. If your plan was lets say to be a drummer, and you prayed and prayed and prayed for a guitar, you obviously wound't get it!

I am a Christian, and I don't believe that God has a plan for everybody's life.

And if you say, right at the very beginning, that you are a very smart guy - in bold - you probably are not.

 

[BadFish]

"Where did God come from?"

Hmm a tough question..

Basically, I believe that the universe is something which has been created by God. God is outside of Science, outside of time, so it is possible for God to have always have been there, as God is something that can't be explained by our pathetic little minds, whatever God is, it is infinite, too huge, too powerful to get your head round, the universe is just a dimension where God has put us.

But surely something that magnificent, that awesome would have to be made very deliberately by something else.

Unless of course you are just on another one of your clever wind ups?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I knew there was a reason I didn't get involved in these debates ....

Firstly that there is absolutely no conflict between science and religion. People who desperately cling to ancient texts and claim them to be divinely-inspired truth are, well I'll be polite and call them 'ignorant morons who should shut the f*** up and try opening their minds and using their God-given intelligence'. Big Bang, quantum physics, evolution (plus anything else we haven't discovered yet) are just the tools used by 'God'. They're incontrovertible proof that the bible's wrong, but not proof that 'God' doesn't exist. I know the existence of 'God' can't be proved one way or the other, but in the early days people thought the earth was flat, the night sky was an inverted bowl and that the stars were the light of heaven shining through. We now know that's wrong, but the debate about the existence of 'God' persists, and without wishing to be dramatic, every human discovery proves how incredible the universe is, and IF there is a creator what a fantastic job 'he' did; the truth is far more impressive than Genesis would have us believe.

And even if we as humans could prove 100% that there was no creator, there is nothing outside of our conscious, observable universe .....So what? I freely admit to using religion as a crutch; I love the timbre of the Anglican service, I love going into cathedrals and lighting candles, I love the contemplative silence, I love the spiritual framework of thinking that I'm part of something bigger. I also like the sense of moral and social compass, especially politically, where I believe that 'all men are created equal'. Arguing about details, about whether Jesus really feed 5000 with a few fish I think misses the point.

There. That's the most I've said on this subject on here for about 13 years!

Well said that man. I would go along with all of that just about, except the high church bit, although i appreciate it elsewhere.

And i think this has been one of the best threads on here for a long time, despite Stewart. I think he and I are at opposite ends of the Church scale.

 

[beorhthelm]

There is only one God, so that is a non-question.

"Where did God come from?"

Hmm a tough question..

Basically, I believe that the universe is something which has been created by God. God is outside of Science, outside of time, so it is possible for God to have always have been there, as God is something that can't be explained by our pathetic little minds, whatever God is, it is infinite, too huge, too powerful to get your head round, the universe is just a dimension where God has put us.

and herein lies the fundemental difference between science and religion. "where did everything come from" for the scientist is a question to start a process of discovery to explore the nature and workings of the universe and see what can be found. for the religious it is a question that just gets pushed aside as unknowable, sky daddy made it so.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

A quick question for those of a religious persuasion, how do you decide which deity you choose to follow? And do you ever worry that the ones that you decide not to worship might get a bit annoyed?

There is only one Deity, unless you are an ancient Greek or Roman or similar. Most (reasonable) people of faith would accept that the Muslim and Christian God are the same one, but that there are just different routes to it - and it is of course the same God as the Jewish God anyway.

That is a gross over-simplification..... and i bet Stewart will have a problem with it.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

and herein lies the fundemental difference between science and religion. "where did everything come from" for the scientist is a question to start a process of discovery to explore the nature and workings of the universe and see what can be found. for the religious it is a question that just gets pushed aside as unknowable, sky daddy made it so.

That is simply not true. There are plenty of scientists who profess a faith and who do not spend all their lives arguing against evolution. And the reason they do not argue against it is because they accept it and discount the Creation Story, because they know full well it is a story.

Sorry to shout, and Stewart will probably have a problem with this as well.

 

[beorhthelm]

There is only one Deity, unless you are an ancient Greek or Roman or similar.

Hindu's might have a view on that, so would Buddists, Taoist and the other various eastern belief systems. fair number of wiccans, and other assorted non-monotheistic groups in the west too.

That is simply not true. There are plenty of scientists who profess a faith and who do not spend all their lives arguing against evolution. And the reason they do not argue against it is because they accept it and discount the Creation Story, because they know full well it is a story.

yes, because the two are not mutually exclusive and i didnt say they were. just that on the matter of "where do we come from" a fundemental different approach is taken by those that live by only religion. science before the 19th century was littered with men with strong belief, because they want answers to questions not offered in that old book. but they didnt really want to touch this question and it took a widespread rejection of faith before the question was properly asked and addressed.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

If you believe in evolution, then why aren't you killing people then? Were here for no reason, so why not kill loads of people then, it won't matter.

I think this is the single most ridiculous post I have ever read on this or any other thread on any site ever.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Hindu's might have a view on that, so would Buddists, Taoist and the other various eastern belief systems. fair number of wiccans, and other assorted non-monotheistic groups in the west too.

You're right of course. I hang my head in shame, and I take inter-faith stuff seriously.

But most thinking people of faith would agree that there is more that inites the faiths than divides them - a sense of humanity, sense of justice, caring about the planet and so on and so forth.

 

[BadFish]

I think this is the single most ridiculous post I have ever read on this or any other thread on any site ever.

I think the fella is a wind up merchant and what he post should be dismissed for the nonsense it clearly is.

 

[00snook]

It' funny how easy it is to wind you all up, you just have to pick your words carefully and BOOM! 5 quotes and 1 new mention.

I'm actually a very smart guy, and to be honest, I do believe that there is a God. There's evidence on the other side as well, so you science arse lickers, here's some of my reasons.

1. MIRACLES
They happen all the time, one of my friends is a drummer and has been all his life, by the age of 19 though he was as good as deaf. Somebody prayed for him and his hearing came back instantly to 100%. Another one was of a man who had one leg, there are many witnesses and his testimony is somewhere online of his leg simply growing back, amazing if true. There are many many more, doctors simply telling severe cancer patients to go home after there "being nothing wrong with them". There have been MANY scientists who have gone out to try and disprove Christianity, but many of those have failed and become Christians! I'm not saying there is a God, I'm saying that there bloody well might be! It's so hard to explain from a Christian's point of view, but there's something out there, forget all the science.
2. Prayer's working
There have been times where as a church or a group in our church pray for something and it happens. Or when somebody prays for something and they get it. It may not seem that amazing, but I have a true story of what happened to a guy in our church. Basically he was having bad financial problems, he needed about £100 to get to the end of the month, which he didn't have. He lived on his own, and had not told ANYBODY about his issues with money. He prayed and prayed and prayed for days, until one night he opened his bible and there was £100 sitting in between 2 pages. There are LOADS of true stories like that, 1 of them must be true if you think that it's just a coincidence?!
3. Jesus existed
Even if you are an atheist, JESUS did exist. There is more scientific evidence for his existence than Nero! So who was he in you guy's opinion?

More fishing.

Caught a few and then rebait and go again.