Enoch Powell,speech. 40 years on.

[m20gull]

A tad harsh, BH. This thread is about Powell's speech, that he made in April 1968.

I wish it was about the speech. As usual it spins off in to a battle of entrenched views completely disconnected from the speech, which features neither "ticking timebombs" or "rivers of blood".

His opinion that indigienous peoples were feeling alienated in their own country and that immigration would change the nature of the country are true. The view expressed (not by him but his quote) that people would leave Britain rather than feel a stranger in their own land is still true and reflected in the people leaving for the Costas.

His other opinion was that the government shouldn't stand idly by and ignore the sentiments of a large number of its citizens - their concerns should be addressed.

 

[Dandyman]

neither. mates are mates, black or white. that is absolutely not what I'm saying is wrong.

Oh f*** it, I really despair . Questions are not racist statements.

I'm not saying you are racist. I just think your reasoning is confused.

I don't like Muslim bigots or Black kids with attitude problems but I don't think either are that significant in terms of who actually runs the country or makes the major decisions that affect our lives.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think that Powell's speech was actually the best thing that supporters of multi-culturalism could have wished for, because it gave them a scapegoat and a cause to unite behind.

There are two other points I would make:

1. In 1968 there was no danger of bombs being let off in our cities - this has changed.

2. A lot of people over 50 are choosing to emigrate and a big reason is the number of immigrants here and the resulting changes in British culture.

 

[Mr Blunt]

In ten more years people will finally wake up to what is happening in this country and it will be to late.

 

[clapham_gull]

In ten more years people will finally wake up to what is happening in this country and it will be to late.

yes, but Powell was saying that almost 40 years ago.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Enoch Powell's speech in 1968 was his prediction of the future. Forty years ago people were seeing how an influx of immigrants from the Commonwealth was changing society. They were seen as not integrating into our society and the eventual upshot of this would lead to turmoil and violence. To an extent this has happened with the race riots but there was also extra contibutory factors such as deprivation , unemployment and treatment of ethnic minorities by the police. In 2008 the scapegoats are no longer blacks and asians , its the eastern europeans , refugees and asylum seekers.

 

[brighton bluenose]

I don't want to sound complacent, Mr Bluenose, but the fact that you can reel off a list of specific and horrifically violent crimes (that we all remember) is evidence enough that Powell's prediction of 'Rivers of Blood' hasn't come true.

If we took such crimes for granted, then this WOULD be evidence of the breakdown of society that he predicted. We don't.

And you're surely NOT saying that the murder of Stephen Lawrence is attributable to 'immigration'?

Sorry but you do sound terribly complacent.

Living down here in Brighton which is to a certain degree cosmopolitan but does not have large ethnic communities or areas, we are insulated from a lot of what goes on in areas like South London.

The cases I mentioned were off the top of my head and were either infamous cases or one local one. There is a hell of a lot more that go on week-in week-out,year-in year-out that we generally dont read about (I worked on the Kennington Park Estate and an adjacent estate for 18 months up to the end of last year and there were three murders in that period!!) thats without the assaults, low level violence and intimidation that goes on and we never get to hear about.

This is all before we get on to gangsta culture, Islamic militancy, no-go areas, ghettoisation etc etc etc

And yes, tragically, Stephen Lawrence was murdered as a direct result of those vile cvnts racism brought on by 'immigration'!!

That is the REALITY in a lot of these areas!

FFS Powell was being dramatic for effect!- he didnt really mean ACTUAL rivers of blood!!

 

[Dandyman]

Sorry but you do sound terribly complacent.

Living down here in Brighton which is to a certain degree cosmopolitan but does not have large ethnic communities or areas, we are insulated from a lot of what goes on in areas like South London.

The cases I mentioned were off the top of my head and were either infamous cases or one local one. There is a hell of a lot more that go on week-in week-out,year-in year-out that we generally dont read about (I worked on the Kennington Park Estate and an adjacent estate for 18 months up to the end of last year and there were three murders in that period!!) thats without the assaults, low level violence and intimidation that goes on and we never get to hear about.

This is all before we get on to gangsta culture, Islamic militancy, no-go areas, ghettoisation etc etc etc

And yes, tragically, Stephen Lawrence was murdered as a direct result of those vile cvnts racism brought on by 'immigration'!!

That is the REALITY in a lot of these areas!

FFS Powell was being dramatic for effect!- he didnt really mean ACTUAL rivers of blood!!

Hard to see what that has to with immigration rather than simply a have and have not society. Lawrence was killed by scumbags, one of whose fathers is a well known criminal.

I have lived in London for over 20 years and there are no ghettos here.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

FFS Powell was being dramatic for effect!- he didnt really mean ACTUAL rivers of blood!!

Thanks for clearing that one up. I was going to suggest he was wrong as in all my time I've only ever seen the Thames a murky brown and not blood red but now I know better.

 

[Questions]

Enoch Powell's speech in 1968 was his prediction of the future. Forty years ago people were seeing how an influx of immigrants from the Commonwealth was changing society. They were seen as not integrating into our society and the eventual upshot of this would lead to turmoil and violence. To an extent this has happened with the race riots but there was also extra contibutory factors such as deprivation , unemployment and treatment of ethnic minorities by the police. In 2008 the scapegoats are no longer blacks and asians , its the eastern europeans , refugees and asylum seekers.

Oh no the Asians are still my favourite scapegoats. The eastern Europeans have got a lot of work to do yet.

 

[Cian]

1. In 1968 there was no danger of bombs being let off in our cities - this has changed.

Nice to see the IRA have been forgotten then, if only you could get the politicans here and the north to forget so quickly we could cut the size of newspapers in half...

Was Powell an Ulster Unionist MP by the time he made the speech, actually?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

In 2008 the scapegoats are no longer blacks and asians , its the eastern europeans , refugees and asylum seekers.

Will those Eastern European refugees and asylum seekers be just like the Eastern European refugees and asylum seekers who came to Britain in the nineteenth century and integrated into British society?

Or will they be Eastern Europeans who will eventually return to Eastern Europe, having made a bit of money for their families?

As you say ... they are scapegoats. I guess it's important that some people have a scapegoat to blame for their own failure to take advantage of the opportunities they were born with.

 

[brighton bluenose]

Thanks for clearing that one up. I was going to suggest he was wrong as in all my time I've only ever seen the Thames a murky brown and not blood red but now I know better.

Unfortunately one or two posters on this thread seem to think that as there is not a veritable tsunami of blood gurgling through the back-streets and by-ways of our country that everything is just fine and dandy out there!!

 

[clapham_gull]

There was a documentary on Channel Four a while back, testing the DNA of people who thought they were 100% English.

Someone has posted it on YouTube and it's well worth a watch

YouTube - Are You 100% English? 1/5

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Nice to see the IRA have been forgotten then, if only you could get the politicans here and the north to forget so quickly we could cut the size of newspapers in half...

Was Powell an Ulster Unionist MP by the time he made the speech, actually?

Powell made the speech in 1968 when he was a 'Conservative and Unionist Party' MP - that's still the correct name for the Conservative Party btw.
He left the party in 1974 and was elected as an Ulster Unionist MP later that year.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Will those Eastern European refugees and asylum seekers be just like the Eastern European refugees and asylum seekers who came to Britain in the nineteenth century and integrated into British society?

Or will they be Eastern Europeans who will eventually return to Eastern Europe, having made a bit of money for their families?

As you say ... they are scapegoats. I guess it's important that some people have a scapegoat to blame for their own failure to take advantage of the opportunities they were born with.

In my opinion its 50/50 about the eastern Europeans , a lot more are deciding to stay here, raise their families and integrate. Those that return to their homeland after working here have still made a contribution. Back in the 19thC the influx of immigrants from eastern Europe also faced persecution as a large number of them were Jewish.