[Cricket] *** England v India *** 2nd Spicy Test at Lords 17th -21st SS2 11am

[spring hall convert]

God knows why Bell has missed out.

A big worry as it goes - he's back up to his old tricks. His place starts coming up for debate pretty soon without runs.

I love watching Ian Bell bat, he is supremely talented but I can't remeber a more frustrating England batsman since Hick. Just when we thought he'd got there, he looks like he's back to square one.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I can't see things getting easier for Bell now Prior is out and we're 1-0 down. He's vice-captain to a bloke bereft of ideas, maybe he's worried he'll be left holding the baby and it's affecting his form?

 

[Braggfan]

Sorry to move away from the thread here, but my mate is thinking of taking his lad to the Sussex game up at Horsham tomorrow and he asked me if I thought it would sell out. I can't imagine a championship game selling out even up at Horsham, but thought I'd ask what others thought just in case.

 

[Bold Seagull]

A big worry as it goes - he's back up to his old tricks. His place starts coming up for debate pretty soon without runs.

I love watching Ian Bell bat, he is supremely talented but I can't remeber a more frustrating England batsman since Hick. Just when we thought he'd got there, he looks like he's back to square one.

I can't see things getting easier for Bell now Prior is out and we're 1-0 down. He's vice-captain to a bloke bereft of ideas, maybe he's worried he'll be left holding the baby and it's affecting his form?

I thought the same, but Bell isn't actually doing as bad as it appears. His test innings over the previous 12 months with most recent first:
16, 25, 64, 56, 2, 27, 15, 72*, 5, 45, 6, 60, 109, 25

That's an average of 40 still...

 

[spring hall convert]

I thought the same, but Bell isn't actually doing as bad as it appears. His test innings over the previous 12 months with most recent first:
16, 25, 64, 56, 2, 27, 15, 72*, 5, 45, 6, 60, 109, 25

That's an average of 40 still...

Fair enough.

 

[Bold Seagull]

A big worry as it goes - he's back up to his old tricks. His place starts coming up for debate pretty soon without runs.

I love watching Ian Bell bat, he is supremely talented but I can't remeber a more frustrating England batsman since Hick. Just when we thought he'd got there, he looks like he's back to square one.

I can't see things getting easier for Bell now Prior is out and we're 1-0 down. He's vice-captain to a bloke bereft of ideas, maybe he's worried he'll be left holding the baby and it's affecting his form?

Fair enough.

No, I got that completely wrong and only listed his first innings scores!!!

Should read like this:
(16, 1), (25, -), (64, 8), (56, 9), (2,16), (27,0), (15, 60), (72*, 6), (5, 32), (45, 17), (6, 113), (60, 4*), (109, 74), (25, 109)

Still an average of 39 over 12 months, although in 2014 it's 22…(2014 innings in Bold)

 

[Iggle Piggle]

It's not. The way I see it we have a few options

1) Stick with Cook until the end of this series and hope for the best.
2) Morgan, Broad, Bell or Root (all of whom have issues, personally I think that Broad is the only viable option here at the moment. I don't think Bell wants it)
3) Get on the phone and grovel to KP. His form didn't suffer from the captaincy.

Also, it's not just the captain, the coach appears to be totally out of his depth, which I think plenty were saying at the time of his appointment.

If there is one thing that won't happen its (3) - KP is gone for good regardless of whom is Coach, not that I think Moores is the answer to the coaching question. I'm sure (1) will happen but Cook has been a bad captain from the word go. We won the Ashes series here in spite of him and we have got progressively worse. In his defence, he has had some harsh stuff to deal with but hasn't at any point looked up to it tactically.

We are then onto the question of whom. Root seems like he might make it but he is too young surely. Bell has never struck me as captain material. Broad strikes me as too brainless for the position. Given that, I can see why we struggle on with (1)

 

[Marshy]

Bring Morgan in as skip and bat him at 6

 

[keaton]

Bring Morgan in as skip and bat him at 6

Ali looks more of test batsmen than Morgan ever did

 

[spring hall convert]

Ali looks more of test batsmen than Morgan ever did

I have to agree. However, I haven't seen too much of Morgan recently, has he got rid of that awful imbalancing crouch and is he a little more aware of where his off stump is?

Not to mention that Ali is our frontline spinner at the moment.

 

[Braggfan]

I agree Morgan has struggled and Ali has looked alright. But we need a decent captain more than we need a competent no 6 at the moment. It's rough on whoever gets dropped but someone from Robson, Ballance or Ali would have to make way for a new captain. If it was Robson, Root could move up to open. If it was Ballance you move everyone down the order. And if it's Ali it's a straight swap, but you would lose the limited spin Ali brings. Tough call.

 

[keaton]

I've not seen any evidence Morgan's a decent captain. He was in charge in the T20 WC and we were pretty average and his form suffered in that

 

[spring hall convert]

I've not seen any evidence Morgan's a decent captain. He was in charge in the T20 WC and we were pretty average and his form suffered in that

I have to say, nor have I.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Ali looks more of test batsmen than Morgan ever did

Morgan has 2 test match hundreds, and 3 further 50's and averages 30. His last test was Feb 2012, and he's improved as a player since then. He's had some decent scores this summer batting at 4 for M'sex with 2 hundreds and 3 fifties in 12 innings with an average of 58.55 this year. He was only 25 when he played his last test. I reckon who is well worth, and deserves another look.

I can't disagree with Marshy, or Ian Botham for that matter who both think he should come in as captain.

 

[spring hall convert]

Captains like McCullum, Clarke, Vaughan and Smith don't grow on trees do they?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Captains like McCullum, Clarke, Vaughan and Smith don't grow on trees do they?

I've never liked bowlers, keepers or opening batsmen being captain. Didn't Vaughan bat at 3 for most of his captaincy with Strauss and Tres. opening?

Just doesn't seem appropriate to have a guy in the field under all the pressure for a day or more, then suddenly have 10mins to get his pads on and prepare himself.

How many outright openers have made good captains?

 

[spring hall convert]

Morgan has 2 test match hundreds, and 3 further 50's and averages 30. His last test was Feb 2012, and he's improved as a player since then. He's had some decent scores this summer batting at 4 for M'sex with 2 hundreds and 3 fifties in 12 innings with an average of 58.55 this year. He was only 25 when he played his last test. I reckon who is well worth, and deserves another look.

I can't disagree with Marshy, or Ian Botham for that matter who both think he should come in as captain.

IIRC Morgan had an excellent start but got totally found out by pace and mystery spin in Abu Dhabi. To be fair, he wasn't the only one.

Are Middlesex Div 1?

 

[Braggfan]

I've not seen any evidence Morgan's a decent captain. He was in charge in the T20 WC and we were pretty average and his form suffered in that

But that's the problem we haven't got a lot of options. Morgan, Bell, Broad, Root, Bopara all have big question marks over them. Do we go with someone with less convincing captain credentials but test experience or someone with better captaining experience but perhaps more of radical call, ie a county captain?

 

[spring hall convert]

How many outright openers have made good captains?

Graeme Smith is the obvious one

Strauss did ok.

I'm sure there are plenty of others.

I would not disagree with the point you make though. You are right about Vaughan, he batted 3 or 4 as skipper I think.

 

[Bold Seagull]

IIRC Morgan had an excellent start but got totally found out by pace and mystery spin in Abu Dhabi. To be fair, he wasn't the only one.

Are Middlesex Div 1?

Yes, 5th, 10pts above Sussex.

Didn't everyone get found out in Abu Dhabi!?