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[Football] "Embarrassing, it’s an absolute disgrace"



One Love

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2011
4,305
Brighton
The clearest sign of a foul on Gabriel was the perpetrator himself.

Joelinton clearly stops for a couple of seconds and delays celebrating expecting the whistle because he knows he's fouled.
 

Clive Walker

Stand Or Fall
Jul 5, 2011
3,082
Brighton
I think even with offsides the C&O should come into it.

For example dunks volley yesterday…… onfield decision was goal. On the replay their was nothing c&o to rule against. Had the Lino flagged a quick glance would have suggested error and they can then scrutinise.

I think the var should be used to check if the onfield decision was entirely wrong and that’s all
 

LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
46,204
SHOREHAM BY SEA
I think they thought he was already on the way down and I kind of agreed with them tbh.

The ball being out is similar to the argument at the World Cup, the overhang of the sphere and the lack of camera angles meant they couldn’t tell and again, I agree, I think it looks like the side of the ball could still be in given it’s not far over the line. Can’t say for sure it’s out.

Arsenal had 1 shot on target the whole game, the main person Arteta should be shouting at is himself.
Umm…I don’t think he was on his way down…more trying to get his head under the ball ..an opinion isn’t it
 

AK74

Bright-eyed. Bushy-tailed. GSOH.
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jan 19, 2010
1,183
Technology is used to help referees and officials in numerous sports - rugby, cricket, American football, motor racing etc. - and yet the 'operator error' rate seems [on face value] to be much lower in comparison to what's happened in the PL since the introduction of VAR.

I'd love to see an experiment involving the use of an AI model to visually analyse a set of existing controversial decisions and see a) how quickly the results would be determined and b) if the outcomes differed from what the Stockley Park officials called as correct at the time.

I'm not suggesting replacing human with robot, but a hybrid approach involved AI augmentation to help establish the right outcome faster and with less - ideally zero - margin for error.
 

tigertim68

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2012
2,255
Brighton and Wolves both get clearly incorrect decisions against them in consecutive weeks: media doesn't give a shit.

Arsenal get one contentious decision against them: Media doesn't stop banging on about it for a week, and will no doubt be bringing it up again when Arsenal fail to win the title.

Pretty standard.
Same with Liverpool the week before we played them
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
22,916
Burgess Hill
I think even with offsides the C&O should come into it.

For example dunks volley yesterday…… onfield decision was goal. On the replay their was nothing c&o to rule against. Had the Lino flagged a quick glance would have suggested error and they can then scrutinise.

I think the var should be used to check if the onfield decision was entirely wrong and that’s all
Sorry but I disagree. Offside shouldn't be subjective, either you're off or you're on. They could change the law to say the lines are only drawn at the feet rather than a part of the body that you can legitimately score with but that would need IFAB to do that. If it becomes subjective as you suggest, one ref would give it another wouldn't and that takes us further away from the consistency that is required.
 

Littlemo

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2022
1,043
Umm…I don’t think he was on his way down…more trying to get his head under the ball ..an opinion isn’t it
Yeah he was, but he went down when he felt the contact. I don’t think he was fouled, the challenge was also in line with what else the referee let go yesterday as well.
 

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,186
Technology is used to help referees and officials in numerous sports - rugby, cricket, American football, motor racing etc. - and yet the 'operator error' rate seems [on face value] to be much lower in comparison to what's happened in the PL since the introduction of VAR.
because there is no real technology involved, its video assisted referee, simply a person applying their subjective view and misreadings onto video instead of real time. telling that goal line tech has 99.9% success, the single failing (i've heard of) was because the ref hadn't check their wrist reciever worked.
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
22,916
Burgess Hill
The officiating has dropped in quality since the introduction of VAR. I’m convinced of it.
As Sussex Guy said, VAR has highlighted the inadequacies of the current crop of refs (and some recently retired). I think part of the problem is that for too long the ref on the pitch was the sole arbiter of what was or wasn't a foul. Now, they can make a decision and rather than seeing that VAR is helping them get to the right decision, they see it as just proving they were wrong. IFAB need to allow the publication of all conversations between the ref and Stockley Park. We know Paulhinha should not have been on the pitch to score the equaliser last week and yesterday Guimaraes should have had at least a yellow if not a red for a needless assault on Jorginho. As for the goal, why does a qualified ref not see the foul on Gabriel for the goal, either in live action or after numerous reviews on video.
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 8, 2003
48,528
Faversham
The officiating has dropped in quality since the introduction of VAR. I’m convinced of it.
Just a different kind of shitness. I was watching some English footy without VAR the other day on the TV and all they key decisions (offsides, penalties) were wrong. All of them. But nobody noticed at the time. For me football without VAR is a bit like top of the pops with Jimmy Savile - it seemed fine at the time. Unfortunately with VAR it is a bit like Capital Radio with Aidan Day - he picks all the hits they play/to keep you in your place all day.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 8, 2003
48,528
Faversham
As Sussex Guy said, VAR has highlighted the inadequacies of the current crop of refs (and some recently retired). I think part of the problem is that for too long the ref on the pitch was the sole arbiter of what was or wasn't a foul. Now, they can make a decision and rather than seeing that VAR is helping them get to the right decision, they see it as just proving they were wrong. IFAB need to allow the publication of all conversations between the ref and Stockley Park. We know Paulhinha should not have been on the pitch to score the equaliser last week and yesterday Guimaraes should have had at least a yellow if not a red for a needless assault on Jorginho. As for the goal, why does a qualified ref not see the foul on Gabriel for the goal, either in live action or after numerous reviews on video.
This is it. And it attracted a certain kind of mentality, happy to be hated as long as they are in charge. Certain types of scout leaders (not all - know one) and prison officers are the same. And it will never resolve when the tech is thought of as simply there to assist the ref. Unless the ref checks all the recordings this cannot happen. He must be over-ridden swiftly by trained VAR referees - a subspecies that as yet does not exist.

Also it is no good individual managers emoting once a month when they get a raw-prawn decision. The managers need to come together and act in unity. Or the clubs. Or whoever it is who runs football - I am not sure who that is but it certainly isn't the referees, any more than traffic wardens run London Transport.
 
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Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,449
To be fair the ball looked like it went out of play during the VAR review, or do people think that stayed in play?

View attachment 169186
That gap between the edge of the line and where the ball is in contact with the ground is exactly the same as every corner taken in the Prem, i.e. probably the edge of the ball is over the edge of the line, so OK.
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 8, 2003
48,528
Faversham
Was he talking about the decision not to send off Haverrtz in the first half? That was far worse than the decision to allow the Newcastle goal.
Apparently lots of people disagree because it was 'a trailing leg'. I agree with you, because it was out of control and studs up.

(The fact that he's a horse-face smirking little **** doesn't help in my decision making process, to be fair).

Having looked at the Newcastle goal a million times, if the ball didn't go out, the shove in the back was certainly a foul, but spotty boy was just about onside. Terrible decision though.
 


SeagullsoverLondon

2024: Dublin here we come
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jun 20, 2021
3,083
Sorry but I disagree. Offside shouldn't be subjective, either you're off or you're on. They could change the law to say the lines are only drawn at the feet rather than a part of the body that you can legitimately score with but that would need IFAB to do that. If it becomes subjective as you suggest, one ref would give it another wouldn't and that takes us further away from the consistency that is required.
But at the moment the system is still subjective. The VAR (who is a person or group of people) decide when to pause the action (subjective, as there are freeze frames showing ball may have already been kicked by Gross yesterday) and where to draw the various lines (what part of Dunk to choose?).
If there had been a different set of VAR officials yesterday there is a very good chance the goal would have stood.
Therefore the system is no more objective and probably only slightly more accurate than a lino raising or not raising their flag.
 

Change at Barnham

Well-known member
Aug 6, 2011
4,840
Bognor Regis
This is quite a powerful argument for whether the ball was definitely in or out.
(Strangely enough shared from a Spurs account)
In a nutshell, it's not easy to be 100% sure.

 


folkestonesgull

Active member
Oct 8, 2006
907
folkestone
What I don't understand is why VAR couldn't say to the ref, "go to the monitor and check the foul, we will look at whether the ball was out or offside".
I do think the system would work better,if the control of the system was in the hands of the ref. E.g the ref should be able to say, I think that was a goal, but there may have been a push, so I want to check it. The VAR is trying to second guess what the ref is thinking, and only intervenes on the clear and obvious error, whatever that is. The ref is not seeing what we are in TV and only gets to see it if VAR thinks it meets the threshold which is mad.
Exactly this.
Like rugby.
The on field ref is in charge, ideally with a headset on and communicates with the VAR.
All decision making should be made at the pitch side monitor, with the VAR sending the images to the ref to decide whether to change their decision.
Rugby is a far harder game to referee yet the difference in quality of the referees and the process is ridiculous
 

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