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Electoral reform needed now



















GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
48,931
Gloucester
I've always been very wary of electoral reforms and changes to the constitution, mainly because I feel it is always being put forward to benefit the party that is putting it forward - like the tories with their boundary changes, for example.

The House of Lords has many critics - and lord knows it has many faults - but in spite of all that, I think it has served the country well over the years, and I haven't been in favour of replacing it with another elected body - but maybe now that time has come, the time for an upper house, elected by PR.
 


pasty

A different kind of pasty
Jul 5, 2003
30,947
West, West, West Sussex
I completely understand the FPTP system, and I'm no great fan of PR, but it does seem a tad strange if you look at it in a "seats per vote" way. SNP got 1 seat roughly every 26000 votes, yet the Greens got only 1 from just over a million votes, and UKIP got only 1 seat over from nearly 4 million!

votes.jpg
 




Bruntburger

New member
Mar 9, 2009
1,138
Peacehaven
Split the country into different nations with different politics, values and beliefs. Then choose where you want to live. Only need one move and then you'll never be disillusioned again.
 


warmleyseagull

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2011
4,372
Beaminster, Dorset
Replacing one flawed system with another is not the answer. If we had PR today we would either have a Conservative/UKIP government with Farage and in the Cabinet or the unholy alliance of 'not the right' with Milband as PM after losing net 26 seats. Can't see how that is any more democratic than what we have now.

Problem with PR is that it reverses the problem; Yes, minor parties have too little influence in FPTP but they get too much as the marginal part(ies) in PR. Voteres end up with a mash mash of compromised policies that no-one voted for (as we have had for five years). Law of Unintended Consequences applies.
 


whosthedaddy

striker256
Apr 20, 2007
459
Hove
Electoral reform needs to be considered at the very least, it's not democratic in any shape or form to have UKIP achieve 3,700,000 votes and only win ONE seat.

And yes, to be clear that's more than the SNP got .
 




GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
48,931
Gloucester
Problem with PR is that it reverses the problem; Yes, minor parties have too little influence in FPTP but they get too much as the marginal part(ies) in PR. Voteres end up with a mash mash of compromised policies that no-one voted for (as we have had for five years). Law of Unintended Consequences applies.
Same applies with FTPT though. We now have a government for the next five years which only about 40% (or slightly less) of the voters wanted, and you can bet your boots that they will be bringing in legislation that much of the 60 odd % that didn't vote for them won't like.
 


peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
12,151
I'm no UKIP fan but for them to get 3 million votes, and the lib dems 2 million votes, and get 10 MPs between them is a joke.

SNP 1.5 million votes, 57 seats!

Which way will it go, peaceful protests or rioting in the streets?

voted Tory, but always ave believed that PR is the ONLY truly reflective and fair system.

Its no suprise why so many feel disenfranchised with politics. FPTP is corrupt
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,940
electoral reform will need to be complete reform, not just try to shoehorn some form of PR onto our existing structure. otherwise the "unfairness" is just diluted a bit without actually being addressed fully. the full impact and scope of change needs to be put in the open for debate, maybe we are happy to directly elect the PM, or cast aside local constituencies in favour of regions and party list.
 




kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,750
Most incredible stat of the 2015 election: Labour gained 480,000 more votes since 2010 than the Tories. Yet they lost 26 seats and the Tories gained 24.
 


DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
17,279
Wouldn't pr lead to a lot of hung parliaments and therefore a new coalition every parliament?

That's what has been happening in Germany for nearly 70 years since the allies imposed proportional representation on that country after the war. And look what a mess they're in.
 


Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
20,489
Playing snooker
That's what has been happening in Germany for nearly 70 years since the allies imposed proportional representation on that country after the war. And look what a mess they're in.

Point of order. Only Herr Tubthumper is allowed to comment on what does / doesn't happen in Germany.
 


clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,800
electoral reform will need to be complete reform, not just try to shoehorn some form of PR onto our existing structure. otherwise the "unfairness" is just diluted a bit without actually being addressed fully. the full impact and scope of change needs to be put in the open for debate, maybe we are happy to directly elect the PM, or cast aside local constituencies in favour of regions and party list.

yep.

So many things need changing. The privy council (which Labour abused). The House of Lords - directly elected or completely independent like the judiciary.

The system just doesn't work anymore.

PR is a bit of a red herring I think.
 




jimbob5

Banned
Sep 18, 2014
2,697
Most incredible stat of the 2015 election: Labour gained 480,000 more votes since 2010 than the Tories. Yet they lost 26 seats and the Tories gained 24.
That is a very interesting stat. Wherever those votes were, it appears most were not in the 20 or so most marginal seats.
 


kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,750
That is a very interesting stat. Wherever those votes were, it appears most were not in the 20 or so most marginal seats.

I'm just trying to get my head round it myself... There were obviously a large number of Lib Dem defectors so this may account for a lot of the Labour gains in that figure (most of them surely wouldn't have voted Tory). But this probably didn't translate into seats (except for the odd gain from the Lib Dems) because in a lot of cases these seats would have been either existing :Labour ones anyway or Tory strongholds.
 


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