Dutch cabinet approves partial ban on Islamic veil in public areas

[Soulman]

You are right though this is where we differ. I would advocate finding a way to lessen the anti western feelings that the bloke was talking about as i think this would lessen the number of people being influenced, lessen the number of people making speeches and lessen the number of extremists (rather than just stranding them somewhere else).

.

These people were influencing long before the ISIS came along, long before talk of banning the burka, i suggest it is naive to think it would stop/lessen now.
Even you must realise living in Oz that the sweeping under the carpet/ignoring has had profound affects in towns like Rotherham. The problem will not go away by ignoring or the continual appeasement, that ship has sailed. Again we differ.

 

[looney]

The first two.
I have made myself clear many times. I don't believe that full head coverings (and let's not include the burka atm) are allowed in court, passport offices, driving tests, police stations etc........so why should a burka, which we have established is NOT worn for religious purposes be ok. Ok for the streets and many other places, but not as the opening article stated in public buildings such as those mentioned. My opinion i 'm afraid.

Its the third one for me in a way nut then feww in here can follow arguments coherantly and that includes you. Not saying you are wrong here but dont really grasp the issues.

 

[Soulman]

Its the third one for me in a way nut then feww in here can follow arguments coherantly and that includes you. Not saying you are wrong here but dont really grasp the issues.

Ah, you see Looney, if i had stated the third one then i would get a barrage of "how many have you talked to face to face in Sompting". So i would have had to state that i might feel uncomfortable if i had to talk to one face to face. Then again i would feel uncomfortable talking to someone i did not know who had a balaclava on.

 

[BadFish]

These people were influencing long before the ISIS came along, long before talk of banning the burka, i suggest it is naive to think it would stop/lessen now.
Even you must realise living in Oz that the sweeping under the carpet/ignoring has had profound affects in towns like Rotherham. The problem will not go away by ignoring or the continual appeasement, that ship has sailed. Again we differ.

I am not suggesting we ignore it, I am just suggesting that we come up with better strategies for dealing with it than the ones suggested on this thread. Like I said while i agree with the stripping of citizenships I think it is a drop in the ocean in terms of actually dealing with the situation.

 

[Soulman]

I am not suggesting we ignore it, I am just suggesting that we come up with better strategies for dealing with it than the ones suggested on this thread. Like I said while i agree with the stripping of citizenships I think it is a drop in the ocean in terms of actually dealing with the situation.

Ok, so do you think if the UK follow the Dutch and ban the burka (i presume all full head coverings are banned anyway) in certain public buildings, but not on the streets etc, is a bad thing?

 

[BadFish]

The first two.
I have made myself clear many times. I don't believe that full head coverings (and let's not include the burka atm) are allowed in court, passport offices, driving tests, police stations etc........so why should a burka, which we have established is NOT worn for religious purposes be ok. Ok for the streets and many other places, but not as the opening article stated in public buildings such as those mentioned. My opinion i 'm afraid.

I can see your point here and in certain situations am i wrong in thinking that Muslim woman will reveal their face to a female in a private room in order to confirm identity. I thought this happened anyway but maybe this is a workable compromise to some of the situations you mention.

 

[Soulman]

I am not suggesting we ignore it, I am just suggesting that we come up with better strategies for dealing with it than the ones suggested on this thread. Like I said while i agree with the stripping of citizenships I think it is a drop in the ocean in terms of actually dealing with the situation.

Ok you are not keen on the ones "suggested", so what can you suggest to "come up with better strategies for dealing with it" ?

 

[BadFish]

Ok, so do you think if the UK follow the Dutch and ban the burka (i presume all full head coverings are banned anyway) in certain public buildings, but not on the streets etc, is a bad thing?

Depends on the reasons and willingness to compromise and respect people's beliefs. I mention a possible compromise in my last post. If there are genuine security and identification concerns then maybe we should find a solution (if there is not already one in place).

if it is to fight the rise of Islamic extremism then i don't see the point as i don't think it will make much difference.

If it is because people don't feel comfortable talking to someone in one then I would suggest they get over it. We manage to have conversations on the phone without seeing each others faces

 

[bWize]

It really is simple in my opinion... If you want to live in this country (and other non muslim countires) then you abide by the rule of the land. If we can't have native English folk walking around the high street in balaclavers then I don't see any reason there should be exceptions for muslims. It's not even in the Koran that a women should be covering herself from head to toe in a black gown and head scalf (Please correct me if I'm wrong) If it's a culture thing then fine, but that culture isn't UK/Euro culture and should be respected as such.

 

[Soulman]

It really is simple in my opinion... If you want to live in this country (and other non muslim countires) then you abide by the rule of the land. If we can't have native English folk walking around the high street in balaclavers then I don't see any reason there should be exceptions for muslims. It's not even in the Koran that a women should be covering herself from head to toe in a black gown and head scalf (Please correct me if I'm wrong) If it's a culture thing then fine, but that culture isn't UK/Euro culture and should be respected as such.

Exactly.

 

[BadFish]

Ok you are not keen on the ones "suggested", so what can you suggest to "come up with better strategies for dealing with it" ?

Well that is a whole other thread.... in fact a whole lot of other threads. We have been talking about this stuff for a very long time. Do i really need to derail this thread with my ideas on this subject? You must have read them a hundred times!

 

[jameswestport]

Reminds me of black people and buses. Didn't something go on a while ago?

 

[bWize]

Reminds me of black people and buses. Didn't something go on a while ago?

How is it even close? You sound like a bit of a drama queen! I think treating human beings in a derogatory way based on their colours and beliefs is utter bullshit and does not belong in the modern world. There is a big difference between that and cultures imposing themselves on a country with demands that even the natives of the country are not allowed to do.

Understand?

 

[Soulman]

Depends on the reasons and willingness to compromise and respect people's beliefs. I mention a possible compromise in my last post. If there are genuine security and identification concerns then maybe we should find a solution (if there is not already one in place).

if it is to fight the rise of Islamic extremism then i don't see the point as i don't think it will make much difference.

If it is because people don't feel comfortable talking to someone in one then I would suggest they get over it. We manage to have conversations on the phone without seeing each others faces

Ok then. Your opinion on this. It seems to me that on these Muslim demos, and i believe in other videos similar to Stacy Dooley, women are not on these demos, if they are they are normally in burkas. So are we to assume that the moderate/non fanatical muslim women will not mind if the burka is banned in certain public buildings, and it is only the more extreme that would be upset.

 

[Soulman]

Well that is a whole other thread.... in fact a whole lot of other threads. We have been talking about this stuff for a very long time. Do i really need to derail this thread with my ideas on this subject? You must have read them a hundred times!

Surely if you can ""come up with better strategies for dealing with it" the problems obviously on this thread that you have replied to.....then it is not derailing the thread.
Just """come up with better strategies" for this thread then.

 

[BadFish]

Ok then. Your opinion on this. It seems to me that on these Muslim demos, and i believe in other videos similar to Stacy Dooley, women are not on these demos, if they are they are normally in burkas. So are we to assume that the moderate/non fanatical muslim women will not mind if the burka is banned in certain public buildings, and it is only the more extreme that would be upset.

I wouldn't assume anything based on what you have posted here.

 

[BadFish]

Surely if you can ""come up with better strategies for dealing with it" the problems obviously on this thread that you have replied to.....then it is not derailing the thread.
Just """come up with better strategies" for this thread then.

Okay.

Don't be respectful of other people's choices and don't ban Islamic coverings.

 

[looney]

Ah, you see Looney, if i had stated the third one then i would get a barrage of "how many have you talked to face to face in Sompting". So i would have had to state that i might feel uncomfortable if i had to talk to one face to face. Then again i would feel uncomfortable talking to someone i did not know who had a balaclava on.

Well firstly I wont talk to someone wearing a mask, guy fawkes, burka or whatever.

Now ive spoken to at least 4 people who have lived in muslim countries and one thing they have all said is you cant let muslims take the piss. Burkas. mega mosques and halal certification on things like Kingsmill bread are prime examples of this.

You confuse tolerance and cowardice. There is no security issue per se as in extreme you can say take your veil of or you will be shot!. Make no mistake, badfish is a coward on every level, that why he whines about acceptance. You dont have to accept anything as that is just a demand you change your views.. He like others on here is trying to have it both ways.

He will be quick to assume the worse about UKIP or people who critque him but assume the worse about someone in a burka? He would run a mile first.This kid of hypocracy is common, its called stonewalling. This goes along with his scaremongering in another post(I just read 2 of his) Sooner you see he has no arguments the better it would be for you.

 

[bWize]

Well firstly I wont talk to someone wearing a mask, guy fawkes, burka or whatever.

Now ive spoken to at least 4 people who have lived in muslim countries and one thing they have all said is you cant let muslims take the piss. Burkas. mega mosques and halal certification on things like Kingsmill bread are prime examples of this.

You confuse tolerance and cowardice. There is no security issue per se as in extreme you can say take your veil of or you will be shot!. Make no mistake, badfish is a coward on every level, that why he whines about acceptance. You dont have to accept anything as that is just a demand you change your views.. He like others on here is trying to have it both ways.

He will be quick to assume the worse about UKIP or people who critque him but assume the worse about someone in a burka? He would run a mile first.This kid of hypocracy is common, its called stonewalling. This goes along with his scaremongering in another post(I just read 2 of his) Sooner you see he has no arguments the better it would be for you.

If you invite people into your home then you don't expect them to start changing the wall paper and the carpet... It really is like that. Even Muslims know they are taking the piss in Europe... I'm usualy on the defense of Muslims regarding U.S/Euro foreign policy but when it comes to home matters then it's hard to deny there is a big culture problem that's only going to grow bigger unless stamped out.

It's interesting that the only countries where muslims don't live in large conflict/wars are non muslim countries... Why bring it here?

 

[jameswestport]

How is it even close? You sound like a bit of a drama queen! I think treating human beings in a derogatory way based on their colours and beliefs is utter bullshit and does not belong in the modern world. There is a big difference between that and cultures imposing themselves on a country with demands that even the natives of the country are not allowed to do.

Understand?

Somewhat. Tbh I only learnt why they wear the veil last week so who am I to pass judgement.