[Albion] Dunk - straight red?

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Refs are not inconsistent when it comes to red cards for dissent. Dunk's was the first in the EPL in 12 years (Lee Cattermole in 2011). They are very, very consistent. They DO NOT give red cards for dissent. They HAVE NOT applied the rule for 12 years........until Taylor decided to give Dunk a red card.
What is the reason for this aberration?

Dunk wasn’t sent off for dissent as it’s not a sending off offence.

 

[chaileyjem]

 

[Seagull58]

Are you broken?

No. Do you understand the problem when a referee makes a decision that has not been taken one single time in more than a decade? If not, I will try to explain; Taylor has arbitrarily reinterpreted the PGMOL standard interpretation of the dissent rule, in conflict with the numerous situations when he has interpreted it in the "accepted" way. It is akin to the legal definition of precedence law. If PGMOL issued new guidance that referees must give a red card for all cases of dissent involving the words "prick", "bellend" etc. that would be a different matter. Sadly, when PGMOL does issue guidance, such as for delaying a free kick or kicking the ball away, the referees pick and choose when to apply it.
I prefer consistency to corruption.

Edit:foul and abusive language rule.

 

[Seagull58]

Dunk wasn’t sent off for dissent as it’s not a sending off offence.

You're splitting hairs. Foul/abusive language.

 

[Berty23]

Incredible that this is the first time a player has abused a ref for 15 years. Obviously they would never pick on Brighton so it must be fair. No one has abused a ref for 15 years. Definitely true.

 

[Seagull58]

It wasn’t for dissent !

Call it what you want. The media is referring to it as dissent. If it is foul and abusive language so be it.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Based upon my rudimentary lip reading skills, half of what Lewis Dunk appeared to say is true ("bald"), so it should only be a 1 match ban.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I love Lewis Dunk but this was a disappointing error. However inconsistent refs can be (eg: Ashley Young incident) - it doesn't justify what Lewis did. The penalty was pretty routine , hardly controversial , and going down to 10 men and being suspended for 2 or 3 matches given our injury crisis is bad judgement - however frustrated he was.
And much as i love RDZ then you reap what you sow. His leadership hardly inspires respect for referees or matchday officials.
(and its not great for all of the grassroots coaches, volunteers , refs on here either trying to hold the line and prevent abuse on a Sunday morning either)

I agree re Lewis's culpability for the red card, he can have no complaints. However from the angles we have seen and were allegedly looked at on the monitor I am not convinced it was a penalty at all.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

Whilst we do not know which one of the two it was, or maybe it was both, the RRA encrouchment is clear and pretty objective I'd say. Dissent is clear to me as well, but obviously more subjective to the recipient. Take your pick.

Whilst his overall performance is questionable, with respect to this particular incident, I'm not sure what more Taylor could do. Even after the red Dunk was still arguing and not leaving the pitch when clearly and visibly asked to.

Before the red Dunk was walking away, then offered as handshake - he wasn't arguing.

 

[chaileyjem]

Before the red Dunk was walking away, then offered as handshake - he wasn't arguing.

He was arguing with the fourth official when he finally left the pitch

 

[Milano]

Before the red Dunk was walking away, then offered as handshake - he wasn't arguing.

I’m afraid that he panicked, I think that he knew instantly that he’d overstepped the mark before the red card came out, when was the last time any player offered to shake hands with the ref during the game?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

No. Do you understand the problem when a referee makes a decision that has not been taken one single time in more than a decade? If not, I will try to explain; Taylor has arbitrarily reinterpreted the PGMOL standard interpretation of the dissent rule, in conflict with the numerous situations when he has interpreted it in the "accepted" way. It is akin to the legal definition of precedence law. If PGMOL issued new guidance that referees must give a red card for all cases of dissent involving the words "prick", "bellend" etc. that would be a different matter. Sadly, when PGMOL does issue guidance, such as for delaying a free kick or kicking the ball away, the referees pick and choose when to apply it.
I prefer consistency to corruption.

Edit:foul and abusive language rule.

You seem angry.

Are you Lee Cattermole?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

There is no inconsistency. No player has been sent off for dissent in the Premier League since Lee Cattermole in 2011, until Taylor sent Dunk off on Saturday. They have been totally consistent for 12 years. Taylor decided, for reasons unknown, to enforce a rule that has not been enforced once in 12 years. It's corruption at its finest/worst.

It wasn't for dissent.

12 years without a single red card for dissent in the EPL.

It wasn't for dissent.

 

[El Presidente]

It's time to fight fire with fire. Let's have a North Stand Bald-a-thon against Brentford to show solidarity for Lewis Dunk

 

[Bozza]

I’m afraid that he panicked, I think that he knew instantly that he’d overstepped the mark before the red card came out, when was the last time any player offered to shake hands with the ref during the game?

Exactly.

Dunk knew he was in trouble when he was walking away from Taylor. First he offered the hand-of-apology behind his back and then a full-on handshake.

He knew he'd overstepped the mark and was risking an early bath.

The only strange bit, for me, is the straight red and not a second yellow. It can't be the case that on Saturday Lewis Dunk abused a referee worse than anyone else has in the last 12 or 15 years, depending which stat is correct.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's time to fight fire with fire. Let's have a North Stand Bald-a-thon against Brentford to show solidarity for Lewis Dunk

View attachment 170333

Fantastic.

I can use the £2.54 saved by not needing a costume to buy half a pie.

 

[jezzer]

I suspect Dunk and countless other players have called refs some choice stuff after being carded and got away with it every time, this time he didn’t - he was a prat though cos once you’re carded you need to leave it - this harassment of refs and intimidation is ugly and unnecessary and I thought de Zerbi was wrong to say after the game he wouldn’t fine dunk - why not? Cos he agrees with what he did? It was so unnecessary. Hate the way it makes us look, and undermines the times when the refs make truly appalling decisions- this was soft but it wasn’t unexpected once var asks to go to monitor that’s it.

 

[Bozza]

I agree re Lewis's culpability for the red card, he can have no complaints. However from the angles we have seen and were allegedly looked at on the monitor I am not convinced it was a penalty at all.

I agree with this also. The replays on my large TV were from too great a distance and blurry. Taylor had the same distant shot to review on a small monitor.

Hinshelwood may well have fouled him, but it's not clear he did. It's equally possible that the striker wrapped his arm around Hinshelwood and took an opportunistic tumble in the way penalty-seekers do.

So, with it not being definitive, I'm not sure how the penalty could be given retrospectively.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Exactly.

Dunk knew he was in trouble when he was walking away from Taylor. First he offered the hand-of-apology behind his back and then a full-on handshake.

He knew he'd overstepped the mark and was risking an early bath.

The only strange bit, for me, is the straight red and not a second yellow. It can't be the case that on Saturday Lewis Dunk abused a referee worse than anyone else has in the last 12 or 15 years, depending which stat is correct.

Just watched Pitchside. Dunk was on the pitch when the review was being watched by Taylor. It's definitely two separate comments and he knows the second one is out of order. But was probably thinking 'shit, that's another yellow I've just got' rather than worrying about a straight red.

Either way he was off. Either way he was stupid. The only thing the card colour sorts out is the suspension length. If we appeal, and I doubt we would, it could be increased. Think we'll just take the 2 game hit.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

The penalty seemed ridiculously soft, not sure how VAR saw an obvious error. As club Captain, Dunk rightly questioned the penalty and was issued a yellow card. Both of these decisions on reflection seem harsh. The red card is more understandable, if Dunk has verbally abused the ref, but it all stems from yet another poor VAR intervention. Then Cooper had the cheek to complain about the decisions. Thankfully we held on for a famous victory.