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[Albion] Dunk - straight red?



AZ Gull

@SeagullsAcademy Threads: @bhafcacademy
Oct 14, 2003
11,448
Chandler, AZ
That's a reasonable position.
I also think De Zerbi's position is reasonable.

He is professionally engaged with a group that have consistently under-performed in games he has been involved in.
They have statistically delivered poorer outcomes for his team than most other teams.

He isn't claiming that Dunk's or Dahoud's Reds weren't warranted.
But he has stated that Palinha's was, and was ignored.

It doesn't help, I agree.
But equally the issue existed before RDZ started commenting on it.
De Zerbi, after the Sheffield United game, admitted that Dahoud's red was the correct decision. As such, there was simply no logical reason to even start talking about referees. And yet, in two separate after-match press conferences (one of which was for Match of the Day) he comes out with "I don't like 80% of referees".
De Zerbi is a very intelligent guy and, I'm sure, doesn't say ANYTHING without being fully aware of the likely consequences.
If I was being cynical I could very easily believe that:

* after one of the most disappointing results of his tenure, only drawing at home to the worst team in the division, who had been bottom
* in a game where his team should have been out of sight at half-time
* where his team imploded after a sending-off for a reckless challenge by an experienced midfielder who should have known better
* to leave his team winless in the PL after six matches, the longest run since he took charge

he chose to make some comments that dominated the narrative of the post-match discourse. Job done.

I have no idea if those comments had any direct impact on Dunk on Saturday (or, indeed, subconsciously had an impact on Anthony Taylor) but they weren't at all helpful to ANYONE (except maybe De Zerbi the other weekend, if you are being cynical).
 

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 23, 2003
33,495
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Not sure I have seen any warning and not sure what about. It is very straightforward to prove they are incompetent or under external influence. Just watch them they are incompetent by their inconsistency. As you wanted proof: take the handball penalty against Dunk that hit his arm after his back, a week or so later the same body-to-hand incident occured in a Liverpool game I think, and it was not awarded as a penalty.
Happy now?
Firstly, check your PMs.

Secondly, of course they’re inconsistent. They are individuals reacting to slightly different incidents covered by laws that are nebulous. It drives us all insane, but it is explicable. However you have NOT proven they are under external influence. If you could I rather suspect you’d be writing for The Athletic or the back pages of The Guardian. Instead, you’re a bloke who doesn’t even realise “eagle” is the nickname of our hated rival :rolleyes:
 

Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
10,429
De Zerbi, after the Sheffield United game, admitted that Dahoud's red was the correct decision. As such, there was simply no logical reason to even start talking about referees. And yet, in two separate after-match press conferences (one of which was for Match of the Day) he comes out with "I don't like 80% of referees".
De Zerbi is a very intelligent guy and, I'm sure, doesn't say ANYTHING without being fully aware of the likely consequences.
If I was being cynical I could very easily believe that:

* after one of the most disappointing results of his tenure, only drawing at home to the worst team in the division, who had been bottom
* in a game where his team should have been out of sight at half-time
* where his team imploded after a sending-off for a reckless challenge by an experienced midfielder who should have known better
* to leave his team winless in the PL after six matches, the longest run since he took charge

he chose to make some comments that dominated the narrative of the post-match discourse. Job done.

I have no idea if those comments had any direct impact on Dunk on Saturday (or, indeed, subconsciously had an impact on Anthony Taylor) but they weren't at all helpful to ANYONE (except maybe De Zerbi the other weekend, if you are being cynical).
I have no issue with De Zerbi's comments.
It's all part of the package.
During his tenure, he has been on the wrong end of poor refereeing decisions much more often than, benefitting from them.
This has impacted on his opinion of referees.

I think his position is understandable and shouldn't have any impact on any aspect of the game.
It isn't helpful, maybe, but equally it shouldn't have any negative impact either.
If it does, then doesn't that indicate there is a problem with the attitude of referees in the division?
 

American Seagle

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2022
641
Firstly, check your PMs.

Secondly, of course they’re inconsistent. They are individuals reacting to slightly different incidents covered by laws that are nebulous. It drives us all insane, but it is explicable. However you have NOT proven they are under external influence. If you could I rather suspect you’d be writing for The Athletic or the back pages of The Guardian. Instead, you’re a bloke who doesn’t even realise “eagle” is the nickname of our hated rival :rolleyes:
There is nothing there. I assume you are in a windup.
Anyway. Enough of this now.
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 8, 2003
48,726
Faversham
I have no issue with De Zerbi's comments.
It's all part of the package.
During his tenure, he has been on the wrong end of poor refereeing decisions much more often than, benefitting from them.
This has impacted on his opinion of referees.

I think his position is understandable and shouldn't have any impact on any aspect of the game.
It isn't helpful, maybe, but equally it shouldn't have any negative impact either.
If it does, then doesn't that indicate there is a problem with the attitude of referees in the division?
Indeed. It was what it was.
 


Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 23, 2003
33,495
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
There is nothing there. I assume you are in a windup.
Anyway. Enough of this now.
IMG_1848.jpeg


Frankly, I’ll ban you for being obtuse if I feel like it. No one will miss you.
 

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo

Waxing chumps like candles since ‘75
Oct 4, 2003
10,777
When I access that URL, I just get an "empty" page (see screenshot):-

View attachment 170317


Any idea why? I know I used to be able to access that data (in fact, the FA website used to list all cautions show to players by club, and I used to record that info before and after matches to know who was actually cautioned or sent-off). Unfortunately that info disappeared a few years ago.
What are you doing right and I'm doing wrong?
I can only get that website to work on my iPhone, I get the same empty page as you when I try on my laptop using both Chrome and Edge. That's why i included a screen shot. The link should take you straight to the Brighton page as it's even got the filtering for club etc in the URL.
 

hughfromalice

Member
Sep 8, 2022
25
There is an ongoing narrative that Dunk was sent off for losing control.
This implies that Dunk's reaction was excessive.
This is not what happened.

As captain he had the right to ask /challenge a decision the ref has come to.
Taylor doesn't warn Dunk that he's pushing it.
He over-reacts to Dunk challenging a decision that he has been forced to change by the VAR operators.

Dunk then made an unwise comment and got the ultimate punishment for it
A punishment that hasn't been administered for 11 years.

Dunky, seems a bit tired to me.

Perhaps getting those back to back MOTMs for England and still finding himself a junior member of the bench hasn't helped his head space.

Whatever Lewis's fault, isn't the refs main job to keep things balanced, both flowing and under control?

Rather than give a second yellow, the ref would have done better to set an example by taking control of the game itself, giving Dunk a warning of a second yellow and then calming him down. While we want the refs to take charge and we want to keep pressure on the refs to a minimum, we don't pay good money to see players sent off in an impetuous manner like that.
Show less
 


American Seagle

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2022
641
View attachment 170321

Frankly, I’ll ban you for being obtuse if I feel like it. No one will miss you.
Screenshot_20231126-234557-430.png

I have nothing.
As you point out no one will miss me, which makes me irrelevant, unimportant and thus have zero influence. Given that I fail to see how anything I say, positive or negative, about anyone could cause an increase or loss of earnings or harm anyone in any way.

But anyway, just leave it man. I am bored of this.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
58,919
The Fatherland
Dunky, seems a bit tired to me.

Perhaps getting those back to back MOTMs for England and still finding himself a junior member of the bench hasn't helped his head space.

Whatever Lewis's fault, isn't the refs main job to keep things balanced, both flowing and under control?

Rather than give a second yellow, the ref would have done better to set an example by taking control of the game itself, giving Dunk a warning of a second yellow and then calming him down. While we want the refs to take charge and we want to keep pressure on the refs to a minimum, we don't pay good money to see players sent off in an impetuous manner like that.
Show less
I struggle to believe the ref did not ask Dunk to calm down/give him a warning, at least once, in all the time he was haranguing him. Dunk was on his shoulder or leaning over him for ages. And surely the first yellow should have suggested it might be an idea to pipe down? To then call him names is just stupid. Responsibilty for this lies purely with Dunk.

I'm also pretty sure Dunk regrets his actions, especially as club captain, and will learn and move on...as he has done in the past.
 

Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
10,429
Dunky, seems a bit tired to me.

Perhaps getting those back to back MOTMs for England and still finding himself a junior member of the bench hasn't helped his head space.

Whatever Lewis's fault, isn't the refs main job to keep things balanced, both flowing and under control?

Rather than give a second yellow, the ref would have done better to set an example by taking control of the game itself, giving Dunk a warning of a second yellow and then calming him down. While we want the refs to take charge and we want to keep pressure on the refs to a minimum, we don't pay good money to see players sent off in an impetuous manner like that.
Show less
Absolutely this.
I haven't seen a justifiable reason for the first yellow yet.
Dissent , or being too close to the monitor, have been suggested, don't seem to be backed up with any evidence.

From teh video of te offences, Dunk appears to say "What about the foul back there" or something similar.
Taylor says something like "Stop getting in my face" and cards him.

It appears to be a card for the Captain remonstrating a decision.
Which is odd, as the accepted position is that the captain is allowed to ask the ref about decisions.

When Dunky started remonstrating, Taylor should have said -
"The decision is made, you aren't going to change it. Carry on, and you're going in the book." Instead he's flashing a yellow card without clear instruction what for.

IMO It was as much poor officiating as it was poor discipline from Dunk.
 

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 23, 2003
33,495
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Somewhat harsh and unnecessary.

Are you the Anthony Taylor of moderators...?
What would be unnecessary would be losing the site for everyone due to a libel action. However, you won’t see his libellous post because I deleted it!

I am, however, also a bald prick.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
58,919
The Fatherland
Absolutely this.
I haven't seen a justifiable reason for the first yellow yet.
Dissent , or being too close to the monitor, have been suggested, don't seem to be backed up with any evidence.


From teh video of te offences, Dunk appears to say "What about the foul back there" or something similar.
Taylor says something like "Stop getting in my face" and cards him.

It appears to be a card for the Captain remonstrating a decision.
Which is odd, as the accepted position is that the captain is allowed to ask the ref about decisions.

When Dunky started remonstrating, Taylor should have said -
"The decision is made, you aren't going to change it. Carry on, and you're going in the book." Instead he's flashing a yellow card without clear instruction what for.

IMO It was as much poor officiating as it was poor discipline from Dunk.
There are at least two reasons I can think of.

1) dissent by word or action
2) entering the referee review area (RRA)

Both were evident during the game. Even if you watch the official club highlights, whilst they do not show the actual action of being in the RRA the commentator makes reference to this.
 

bluenitsuj

Listen to me!!!
Feb 26, 2011
4,257
Willingdon
Next time we have this ref, all players including management should wear this....

Screenshot_20231127_093124_hotukdeals.jpg
 

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,394
Back in Sussex
If you are sent off for a second bookable offence, do you get shown a yellow card followed by a red, or just the red card only.

Dunk seemed to be shown a yellow card for the first booking, followed by a red card for the second offence.
There are at least two reasons I can think of.

1) dissent by word or action
2) entering the referee review area (RRA)

Both were evident during the game. Even if you watch the official club highlights, whilst they do not show the actual action of being in the RRA the commentator makes reference to this.
As I posted way back when, the club certainly believed that the yellow was for being too close when Taylor was reviewing the VAR footage for the penalty incident.

As Taylor indicates the penalty decision he has to push by Dunk who is remonstrating and pointing back in the direction of the VAR monitor, but he suddenly stops as if he's heard something, points at Dunk and produces the yellow.

As such, I'd say it doesn't look as though that yellow was for getting too involved in the VAR review even though, as you say, the club commentator does say "...he was watching behind Anthony Taylot's shoulder on the screen."

I think dissent is the more likely reason for the yellow.
 


Swegulls

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2023
417
Stockholm
I don't know if all players are stupid or what. Just stay away from the referee. Let the captain do the talking, if you have to. Has it ever happened that a ref has changed his mind after having 10-15 players right in his face? Just play on, please.

Otherwise it's quite strange to see Mitoma on three already, don't really remember how he got them. Talking? Diving? Tackle?
 

Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Somewhat harsh and unnecessary.

Are you the Anthony Taylor of moderators...?
We forget that NSC is public. Posts from this board have appeared in the press before now. Bozza has also said, he’s had legal threats, and threats to his family from other posts here.
The moderators are right to warn posters of their content, or refusal to take notice of warnings, imo.
 

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