[Politics] Donald Trump 2024

[chickens]

A surreal experience since CD went on ignore. A CD post, followed by a string of people trying to show them the error of their ways.

I suspect CD knows precisely what they’re doing, there is either a form of vulnerability there, or they are an accomplished “bad actor” without any sense of belief in their words, but willing to keep others strung along responding to them.

I fear all arguments fall on the same deaf ears. I can thoroughly recommend the ignore function, it brings balm to a weary soul.

 

[Pavilionaire]

This thread has been ruined. Well done guys.

 

[Machiavelli]

This thread has been ruined. Well done guys.

Really don't know who you're blaming here.
I'm not a free speech zealot, and when someone acts in bad faith, or incites hatred, then they deserve to be banned. That's all I'll say about this thread (which I haven't posted on for a long time).

 

[Bodian]

Their?

Well, yes.

Avoid gendered pronouns (he or she) when the person’s gender is unknown

When using a gendered pronoun (e.g.

eige.europa.eu

 

[schmunk]

And their you are being rude, saying you have TDS isn't rude as I pointed out the lack of conciliatory points.

Whenever you (or others) post the HILARIOUS term "TDS" it makes me think of this.



What will Trump have to do, beyond all the stupid, harmful and offensive things he's done to date, for you to stop believing in him?

 

[Bodian]

The thread isn’t ‘ruined’, don’t be silly - in a few pages, it will all be forgotten. However, not sure who you are directing your ‘well done guys’ remark at given this spat was between myself and CD - I suspect the intention is inflammatory though rather than concern for the thread. This is the first time I have drawn a line under all the baiting and trolling here (on both sides at times) . It’s because I’ve not wanted to ‘ruin the thread’, (one I started because I am genuinely interested in following the course of Trump’s campaign for a second term) that I have not joined the pile ons and let the accusations of baiting and trolling go, time and time again, and given CD the benefit of the doubt but enough is enough. Somehow this whole thread is dominated by CD posting baiting comments then people getting upset with CD and it is incredibly boring - and very annoying for those of us wanting to discuss the issues.

Trouble is - it seems hard to discuss the issues. The main question on this thread has always been 'what is it that makes people vote Trump given all we know about him?'. And that's really what I am interested in - what drives people to support him, what do they really think he will do for them. And that question rarely gets answered directly by those supporting Trump - so it's difficult to discuss!

 

[Zeberdi]

Whenever you (or others) post the HILARIOUS term "TDS" it makes me think of this.



What will Trump have to do, beyond all the stupid, harmful and offensive things he's done to date, for you to stop believing in him?

It might be hilarious on the face of it but an NSC member telling someone they have a ‘bad case of TDS‘ is a deliberately offensive and partisan slur, a pejorative term used by MAGA supporters to portray those that are anti-Trump as being mentally deficient or having a psychiatric illness. Given the number of times I have been trolled because of my autism and accused of having mental health problems (which isn’t a mental illness but neurodivergence), I’m pretty sure that CD knew what he was doing when he applied that term to me and not to any other poster on this thread, and is telling in itself about his trolling habits.

 

[Zeberdi]

Trouble is - it seems hard to discuss the issues. The main question on this thread has always been 'what is it that makes people vote Trump given all we know about him?'. And that's really what I am interested in - what drives people to support him, what do they really think he will do for them. And that question rarely gets answered directly by those supporting Trump - so it's difficult to discuss!

Yep, exactly and your genuine enquiring approach is the only spirit in which true debate can take place imo. I have however, come to the conclusion that I think you are not going to get anywhere trying to get these answers out of CD - as @chickens says above.

I have found @lasvegan easy to converse with and seems at least open to flexible thinking and has coherency and objectivity in his posts but apart from that, who else is there on NSC that confesses to being a Trump supporter? Finding a Trump supporter who can articulate intelligent policy reasons why they support Trump is a tough ask frankly imo even beyond the forum because Trump himself is not a rational orator and his personal proclivities tend to drown out any considered response to what he is saying about policy.

 

[lasvegan]

Trouble is - it seems hard to discuss the issues. The main question on this thread has always been 'what is it that makes people vote Trump given all we know about him?'. And that's really what I am interested in - what drives people to support him, what do they really think he will do for them. And that question rarely gets answered directly by those supporting Trump - so it's difficult to discuss!

It’s really not that complicated, just idealogical. Trump may be a bad man, but I also believe Biden (or whoever is running him) is a bad man. Which brings up another serious question, we don’t really know who is, do we? It is obvious he no longer has the mental acuity to be the leader of the “free world”, in which case why would someone even consider voting for him?

I know that people think the Republican Party has gone far right, but I also believe the Democrat Party is now far left, socialist even. I just want to live my life as freely as possible, with as little government interference as possible, nothing more, nothing less. I want nothing to do with Socialism, and that’s where the democrats are taking us. If I voice an opinion, or post something from a conservative site, I just get told my opinions are worthless as the source is untrustworthy. You can’t have a debate when people aren’t interested in the other side of the story.

 

[lasvegan]

It might be hilarious on the face of it but an NSC member telling someone they have a ‘bad case of TDS‘ is a deliberately offensive and partisan slur, a pejorative term used by MAGA supporters to portray those that are anti-Trump as being mentally deficient or having a psychiatric illness. Given the number of times I have been trolled because of my autism and accused of having mental health problems (which isn’t a mental illness but neurodivergence), I’m pretty sure that CD knew what he was doing when he applied that term to me and not to any other poster on this thread, and is telling in itself about his trolling habits.

I’m not sure that it is deliberately offensive and partisan, but I do believe TDS is a real thing. People let him get so far under their skin they say the most ridiculous and disturbing things. There is someone on here who posted the the most deranged piece that I’ve ever read.

 

[lasvegan]

Yep, exactly and your genuine enquiring approach is the only spirit in which true debate can take place imo. I have however, come to the conclusion that I think you are not going to get anywhere trying to get these answers out of CD - as @chickens says above.

I have found @lasvegan easy to converse with and seems at least open to flexible thinking and has coherency and objectivity in his posts but apart from that, who else is there on NSC that confesses to being a Trump supporter? Finding a Trump supporter who can articulate intelligent policy reasons why they support Trump is a tough ask frankly imo even beyond the forum because Trump himself is not a rational orator and his personal proclivities tend to drown out any considered response to what he is saying about policy. I highlighted above why I thought Trump has so much support and that’s because I believe he appeals to the darker angels and selfish aspects of human behaviour but I also said above that Trump supporters have genuine concerns so polarising the debate between Trump and Biden by being abusive or dismissive about their respective supporters is not helpful. Both Biden and Trump supporters are doing this.

Both sides need to be prepared to listen otherwise you push people into further entrenchment of their ideas and the possibility for change is lost - I remain unconvinced that America, as polarised as it is now, still has the capacity to ‘listen’ to those on the opposite side of the political divide - not as the voting public nor as political leaders.

I was going to take a couple of days off of this thread, but you buttered me up with your kind words, so here I am. Half of my friends have completely opposite views to myself, but we remain friends anyway. We just agree to disagree.

 

[Stat Brother]

It’s really not that complicated, just idealogical. Trump may be a bad man, but I also believe Biden (or whoever is running him) is a bad man. Which brings up another serious question, we don’t really know who is, do we? It is obvious he no longer has the mental acuity to be the leader of the “free world”, in which case why would someone even consider voting for him?

I know that people think the Republican Party has gone far right, but I also believe the Democrat Party is now far left, socialist even. I just want to live my life as freely as possible, with as little government interference as possible, nothing more, nothing less. I want nothing to do with Socialism, and that’s where the democrats are taking us. If I voice an opinion, or post something from a conservative site, I just get told my opinions are worthless as the source is untrustworthy. You can’t have a debate when people aren’t interested in the other side of the story.

You've written quite a lot that can easily be picked at but:-

is obvious he no longer has the mental acuity to be the leader of the “free world”, in which case why would someone even consider voting for him?

is where the whole house of cards falls down.
I'd let it pass were it not for the mental acuity of your man animosity

Which I'd suggest is THE main point to all of this.

 

[One Love]

It’s really not that complicated, just idealogical. Trump may be a bad man, but I also believe Biden (or whoever is running him) is a bad man.
I know that people think the Republican Party has gone far right, but I also believe the Democrat Party is now far left, socialist even. I just want to live my life as freely as possible, with as little government interference as possible, nothing more, nothing less.

Firstly you cannot compare Trump to Biden.

Just take it from the facts, grab 'em by the p, paying off porn stars, multiple court cases, not paying workers etc etc etc.

Ok you might think Biden is a bad man, Hunter's laptop, sniffing kids or whatever bollocks but they are are in no comparison to all the stuff we think we know about Trump.

To compare the two as "bad man" is ridiculous.

To protect your ideology, presumably pretty far right, so you care about nobody but you and yours, you are prepared to let a egotistic man child become president again where he'll probably have carte blanche to do whatever he wants.

I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

 

[Bodian]

It’s really not that complicated, just idealogical. Trump may be a bad man, but I also believe Biden (or whoever is running him) is a bad man. Which brings up another serious question, we don’t really know who is, do we? It is obvious he no longer has the mental acuity to be the leader of the “free world”, in which case why would someone even consider voting for him?

I know that people think the Republican Party has gone far right, but I also believe the Democrat Party is now far left, socialist even. I just want to live my life as freely as possible, with as little government interference as possible, nothing more, nothing less. I want nothing to do with Socialism, and that’s where the democrats are taking us. If I voice an opinion, or post something from a conservative site, I just get told my opinions are worthless as the source is untrustworthy. You can’t have a debate when people aren’t interested in the other side of the story.

You've written quite a lot that can easily be picked at but:-

is obvious he no longer has the mental acuity to be the leader of the “free world”, in which case why would someone even consider voting for him?

is where the whole house of cards falls down.
I'd let it pass were it not for the mental acuity of your man animosity

Which I'd suggest is THE main point to all of this.

The thing for me is that it is not just the President themselves that are important - it's all that comes along with them. No-one person really makes all the decisions (apart maybe from Putin), but shapes the direction and decision making of those along with them and working with them.

And that's where the vast difference is between Biden and Trump for me. Biden could gradually go senile, but the general direction of travel wold remain the same and guided by his overall beliefs. Same with Trump - except diametrically the opposite direction of travel. And it's why anyone would choose the latter direction that puzzles me.

 

[herecomesaregular]

It’s really not that complicated, just idealogical. Trump may be a bad man, but I also believe Biden (or whoever is running him) is a bad man. Which brings up another serious question, we don’t really know who is, do we? It is obvious he no longer has the mental acuity to be the leader of the “free world”, in which case why would someone even consider voting for him?

I know that people think the Republican Party has gone far right, but I also believe the Democrat Party is now far left, socialist even. I just want to live my life as freely as possible, with as little government interference as possible, nothing more, nothing less. I want nothing to do with Socialism, and that’s where the democrats are taking us. If I voice an opinion, or post something from a conservative site, I just get told my opinions are worthless as the source is untrustworthy. You can’t have a debate when people aren’t interested in the other side of the story.

Nutshell. Laughable that Americans consider Democrats as Socialist. wtf. Has there ever been a nation more paranoid about any governance?

 

[Hugo Rune]

Whenever you (or others) post the HILARIOUS term "TDS" it makes me think of this.



What will Trump have to do, beyond all the stupid, harmful and offensive things he's done to date, for you to stop believing in him?

This is a great cover of CoP.



I’ve heard the mantra preached, many times, on why Americans love Trump. Those that adore the Orange Blob do so because he is ‘like’ them it’s frequently claimed.

1. Loud.
2. Overweight.
3. Obnoxious
4. Arrogant
5. Narcissistic
6. Dishonest
Etc

 

[Lenny Rider]

This is a great cover of CoP.



I’ve heard the mantra preached, many times, on why Americans love Trump. Those that adore the Orange Blob do so because he is ‘like’ them it’s frequently claimed.

1. Loud.
2. Overweight.
3. Obnoxious
4. Arrogant
5. Narcissistic
6. Dishonest
Etc

But electable?

 

[WATFORD zero]

This is a great cover of CoP.



I’ve heard the mantra preached, many times, on why Americans love Trump. Those that adore the Orange Blob do so because he is ‘like’ them it’s frequently claimed.

1. Loud.
2. Overweight.
3. Obnoxious
4. Arrogant
5. Narcissistic
6. Dishonest
Etc

Well at least Britain wouldn't be stupid enough to vote for a loud, overweight, arrogant, narcissistic liar ................... Oh

 

[herecomesaregular]

Whenever you (or others) post the HILARIOUS term "TDS" it makes me think of this.



What will Trump have to do, beyond all the stupid, harmful and offensive things he's done to date, for you to stop believing in him?

Not their best song but I used to love this band in the early 90s. I have a signed copy of a Time's Up promo.

 

[Zeberdi]

Let’s not kid ourselves that Trump’s rise to power is all about cult of personality- the Republican Party has moved further to the right in recent years than the Dems have moved to the left - the alternatives to Trump (eg Ron DeSantis ) would have been even worse on a policy basis. Moderates and less religious zealots have left the Party leaving the GOP radicalised by fundamentalist and hard right nationalists - it is lazy thinking to suggest this election‘s priorities are all about keeping Trump out - it masks the heinous beast that the Republican Party has now become, Trump or not and how it is being increasingly influenced by politicians like Mark Robinson:

Far-right candidates see Super Tuesday wins at traditional Republicans’ expense

Highest-profile victory goes to Mark Robinson, a Hitler-quoting anti-abortion extremist who will now run for North Carolina governor

www.theguardian.com

America is so polarised and entrenched in hate that Jan 6 may just have been a warning of worse to come - Trump posting a video of a photo of Biden hogtied at the back of a puck-up has caused ‘outrage’ as did Comedy artist, Kathy Griffin’s stand up stunt holding an image of Trump’s head - both horrible and violent expressions from opposite sides of the political canyon dividing America: