Do you believe your voice is heard at the Albion, and do you care?

[Silent Bob]

Sounds a bit like the Supporters' Club. We definitely don't need BISA at the moment; it was very much a 'war' coalition of quite a few different people all united in one aim - to save the club. What would BISA do now? There would just be endless 'peace time' arguments about what pies should be sold and whether Harveys was better than Dark Star.

That sums it up for me.

I might be interested in joining a fans group if there were convincing difference with the supporters club and convincing reasons for it to actually exist. If it's just because we feel unconsulted about the changing of the badge (it'll be round with a seagull on it - which most want as demonstrated by the many threads on here) and, um, the fact they banned vuvuzelas, then I don't really see the need.

 

[Brovion]

You're right in one way, Tim. (Hope all's well by the way - will email soon, want to ask you something) BISA was simply a lot of people acting together to save the Albion. As long as everything in the future is hunky dory (and we have every confidence it will be) then there is far less need for an organised independent supporters' voice, and Ask the Club etc will do fine. But if people FEEL unrepresentated then there's no reason they shouldn't organise themselves and I'm sure the club will listen. It's up to Bozza, or anyone who feels that way, to take the initiative and see what response they get from fellow fans. For what it's worth they'll have my support, but i can see the counter arguments that now that the war is over there is no real need.

Hi John, yeah fine thanks mate, I'll look forward to hearing from you. Anyway, with the pleasantries out of the way can I say I fundementally disagree with you! Suppose there were a group of say twenty or thirty people who felt under-representated so they organised themselves into a new BISA and got the club to agree to listen to them. What you'd have then would be an unelected, self-important clique of uberfans who felt they could speak for all fans despite the fact they had no mandate to do so. In those circumstances I and I'm sure many others who weren't in the cabal would feel excluded and under-represented in a way we don't feel at the moment.

It's actually self-defeating. The new BISA would speak for no one and represent no one other than its own members. The club could then quite legitimately ignore everything they said safe in the knowledge that BISA were only a tiny tiny group of like-minded fans, probably not even a representative cross-sample of the fanbase as a whole.

 

[attila]

Hi John, yeah fine thanks mate, I'll look forward to hearing from you. Anyway, with the pleasantries out of the way can I say I fundementally disagree with you! Suppose there were a group of say twenty or thirty people who felt under-representated so they organised themselves into a new BISA and got the club to agree to listen to them. What you'd have then would be an unelected, self-important clique of uberfans who felt they could speak for all fans despite the fact they had no mandate to do so. In those circumstances I and I'm sure many others who weren't in the cabal would feel excluded and under-represented in a way we don't feel at the moment.

It's actually self-defeating. The new BISA would speak for no one and represent no one other than its own members. The club could then quite legitimately ignore everything they said safe in the knowledge that BISA were only a tiny tiny group of like-minded fans, probably not even a representative cross-sample of the fanbase as a whole.

Wrong end of stick Tim. BISA was simply a name for all of us battling to save the club. The fact that it had no membership, fees, etc meant that anyone who did anything to help the cause was a part of BISA if they wanted to be! If there was to be some sort of rekindling of that, fine, if people thought it a good idea. That's the extent of it for me. Bobble hat membership schemes, chairmen, vice chairmen and money changing hands...erm, no.

 

[Brovion]

Wrong end of stick Tim. BISA was simply a name for all of us battling to save the club. The fact that it had no membership, fees, etc meant that anyone who did anything to help the cause was a part of BISA if they wanted to be! If there was to be some sort of rekindling of that, fine, if people thought it a good idea. That's the extent of it for me. Bobble hat membership schemes, chairmen, vice chairmen and money changing hands...erm, no.

I know and I accept all that. It's just that the last thing I want to see is a small group of fans, be that the strait-laceds bobble hats of the very properly organised Official Supporters' Club, Bozza's new grouping or a BISA-style loose collection of crusty anarchists demanding that the club should listen to 'them' as 'they' represent the supporters.

 

[Insider]

As for those who think some fans are heard and others aren't, I would suggest it's probably just that those people get off their arse and make an effort to get involved. I don't think it's a closed shop, and if any of us want to turn up to all the things Liz Costa does we would be heard too.

Any supporter is welcome to email, write in or come and see us. Since DK took over in 1997, the club has always had an open door policy.

 

[Knotty]

100% opposed to that idea! It would just be swapping one clique (if there is one) for another: "I've paid £10 to join a bobble-hat group, therefore my opinion is more important than yours!"

I agree with BensGrandad inasmuch as I don't think we have any 'right' to have our voices heard. Also, as Ecosse Exile pointed out with Rangers, there are (almost) as many different opinions as their are individual Brighton fans and no one group could ever be said to represent 'the fans'. The club is best off looking at a number of different sources (such as, but not limited to, threads on here) to get a vague, general view of the opinions of the fanbase. And we DO have 'fans on the board'.

However these are 'good times' when the club and the fans are all on the same side. If , heaven forbid, we end up with another Archer then we WILL need to resurrect BISA - but that by definition won't be an 'official' club-approved body.

Well said!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Why don't the club just stick a poll on NSC for any burning issues of the day. Make it so you don't have to become an NSC member in order to vote and you don't get more than one vote and Bob's yer uncle etc.

 

[drew]

I am a supporter with no financial input to the club outside of buying tickets and merchandise etc. which I do through my choice and as such dont expect to have any input into the way the club is run.

I do not think that supporters should have, but I think that there should be a 'suggestion box' like we have with Insider, whereby any ideas that are expressed can be passed on to those that run the club.

I accept that this view may not be shared or liked by many who believe that we should have an input but it is my own view, rightly or wrongly.

I agree entirely.

 

[e77]

On face value a good idea so long as it was a broad church, fully accountable and democratic and accessible to all (not least in terms of any subscriptions).

 

[portlock seagull]

Any supporter is welcome to email, write in or come and see us. Since DK took over in 1997, the club has always had an open door policy.

Can I suggest anyone who wants to do uses a second class stamp. Least that way you've saved a few pence when you wondered why you bothered because they never acknowledge let alone write a proper reply. Sad but very true experience for most fans. They just can't be arsed, withe the exception of ticket office Scottish bloke who clearly doesn't belong because of his outstanding customer service.

 

[Al Bion]

Can I suggest anyone who wants to do uses a second class stamp. Least that way you've saved a few pence when you wondered why you bothered because they never acknowledge let alone write a proper reply. Sad but very true experience for most fans. They just can't be arsed, withe the exception of ticket office Scottish bloke who clearly doesn't belong because of his outstanding customer service.

Have to say I've always received replies to the various emails I've sent in over the past few years. One email I sent, the club went to the trouble of phoning me back to discuss even though I'd not put my telephone number on the email.

Even after everything that's happened at the club, I don't think some people seem to appreciate how open and accessible our club is. Ask the Club is a great resource, we have forums and I feel the fans are normally consulted on major issues. Many fans of other clubs have no access to those running their club.

I personally don't see the need for a BISA at the moment, if people want to join a supporters group they could join the official supporters club. BISA might feel it would be more controversial but, ultimately, those running it would come to be seen in just the same light as Liz Costa etc by the general members.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I think we have a very open club. It's pretty easy to get a point across or suggest an idea. The club takes on board those they think relevant and ignores the rest. Things like ISAs only really work when they have issues to focus on and rally around. The only issue we have at the moment is how exciting the future looks. I forecast mass antipathy.

 

[severnside gull]

My voice is heard on the terraces and I'm happy with that so it's a no from me.

 

[janee]

I think the main point is that fans have some kind of collective voice rather than an individual one. I think Sam is wrong as voting with your feet is less of an option for die hard fans. I work in the area of community engagement and providing a collective voice to customers works well for business and can make businesses more efficient and give everybody a stake. Frankly I'm surprised that TSLR don't want more say in how the club is run. I'm sure overcoming perceptions of "cliques" etc could be worked out. I agree that a few pounds should be paid - partly to ensure people feel that they have a stake in what's going on but also to cover the costs of admin. etc.

Excellent post Bozza

 

[portlock seagull]

My voice is heard on the terraces and I'm happy with that so it's a no from me.

Careful during the forthcoming season, the stewards will have their eye on you if you start singing.

 

[¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤]

If my voice was to be heard, I want it to be via one of those Stephen Hawking style voice synthesizers.

"The uni-verse is everrr expan-ding..... like my cock"

 

[Return of the Rev]

IN THE OLD DAYS THE SUPPORTERS CLUB WOULD REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF THE FANS( CLUB STOOGES AS THEY WERE KNOWN) NOW THE NEW BREED OF FANS THAT HAVE MOVED CLOSER TO THE CLUB HAVE BECOME THE NEW STOOGES WHEN YOU GET CLOSER TO THE CLUB YOU BECOME PART OF IT, I THINK IF YOU ARE GOING TO KEEP HEADS DOWN YOU NEED TO SHOOT FROM A DISTANCE

 

[severnside gull]

Careful during the forthcoming season, the stewards will have their eye on you if you start singing.

 

[Brovion]

I think the main point is that fans have some kind of collective voice rather than an individual one. I think Sam is wrong as voting with your feet is less of an option for die hard fans. I work in the area of community engagement and providing a collective voice to customers works well for business and can make businesses more efficient and give everybody a stake. Frankly I'm surprised that TSLR don't want more say in how the club is run. I'm sure overcoming perceptions of "cliques" etc could be worked out. I agree that a few pounds should be paid - partly to ensure people feel that they have a stake in what's going on but also to cover the costs of admin. etc.

Excellent post Bozza

Four questions:

1 - Why do fans in this era need a collective voice?

2 - Assuming you can come up with an answer to that (other than an anodyne 'To tell the club what we think') - how are you going to achieve a collective voice? We've already established, and a cursory glance at almost any thread on here will confirm it, that the only thing we all agree on is that we DON'T agree on so many things!

3 - Why are you surprised that TSLR don't want more say in how the club is run? It's just a fanzine and the people involved have probably very sensibly decided that their views are not and should not be presented to the club as the definiitive opinion of the entire fanbase. I'm certain that they're not so self-important to imagine that their views should be 'listened to'.

4 - How will you solve the problems of cliques? Sorry, that's a bit unfair, but in any organisation, whether it's a formal one like the supporters' club or an informal one like BISA certain people end up doing all the work (as Atilla pointed out). These people, rightly or wrongly, will be seen as the 'clique' and will be seen as being 'more equal' than the others. That's human nature and I don't think you'll ever solve it.

 

[janee]

I think the fact that some people would like a collective voice is enough. NHS trusts, starbucks etc all encourage a collective voice or feedback because they recognise the business benefits.

Having lived through the Archer era - I'm convinced that fan power and support can overcome some of the business/financial mistakes overcoming modern football.

I know TSLR well and feel that they (or 50% of the editorial would agree with me

No real answer to the clique but feel good accountability would help. Probably not impossible for several 1000 fans to come up with an answer so shouldn't prevent fans having more say