[Politics] Do we need a General Strike?

[LamieRobertson]

privatise health and education?!?

maddest thing i've read on this board

 

[rogersix]

at least you at a point whereby you can regret it!

 

[beorhthelm]

privatise health and education?!?

maddest thing i've read on this board

never understand why people think public owned means run direct from the ministry. the average time for a minister in post is something like 2 years, and they are usually ignorant of the brief, just there to sign off and set policy. wouldn't it be better to have running major state institutions left to those spending their life in the profession, stop political interference to boost a politician's career, or satisfy an ideological itch?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

it needs economic growth as this will also yield tax revenue.

You are Liz Truss and I claim my £5.00

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

The quickest and easiest way for instant growth is rejoining the European Economic Area.

Agreed - I can understand the Brexit Party - sorry - the current Tory Party being ideologically against it, but not Keir Starmer / New, New Labour.

 

[LamieRobertson]

at least you at a point whereby you can regret it!

Sorry uve lost me..care to elaborate

 

[LamieRobertson]

never understand why people think public owned means run direct from the ministry. the average time for a minister in post is something like 2 years, and they are usually ignorant of the brief, just there to sign off and set policy. wouldn't it be better to have running major state institutions left to those spending their life in the profession, stop political interference to boost a politician's career, or satisfy an ideological itch?

Thanks …that expanded my one liner nicely

 

[St Leonards Seagull]

never understand why people think public owned means run direct from the ministry. the average time for a minister in post is something like 2 years, and they are usually ignorant of the brief, just there to sign off and set policy. wouldn't it be better to have running major state institutions left to those spending their life in the profession, stop political interference to boost a politician's career, or satisfy an ideological itch?

I’ve thought about this for years. There is no long term planning. Governments are only interested in the 5 year term and there is rarely any planning beyond that. Lots of money is spent with short term fixes due to this, normally at the cost of longer term development. Politicians don’t have any interest in developing services beyond their term, which leads to issues further down the road.
The current situation in the NHS is the culmination of years of this political kicking the can down the road.
I’m just not sure if there is a way to make the NHS apolitical as there are too many points to be scored off of it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

never understand why people think public owned means run direct from the ministry. the average time for a minister in post is something like 2 years, and they are usually ignorant of the brief, just there to sign off and set policy. wouldn't it be better to have running major state institutions left to those spending their life in the profession, stop political interference to boost a politician's career, or satisfy an ideological itch?

Doesn't publicly funded for the benefit of all, but with policy set by a politician who actually knows the brief sound far, far, better?

A former GP as Health Sec, former policeman / woman as Home Sec, someone who's spent time at the BoE or OBR as Chancellor etc etc. I've said this for a long time.

Sadly we get professional politicians who've done PPE at Oxbridge and think they know everything when they couldn't even run a bath. Gillian Keegan, the Education Secretary has never worked anywhere near a school, instead being a former Chief Marketing Officer. Truss qualified as an accountant but her only exposure to finance came as a minor director at Cable and Wireless (still the WORST firm I have ever dealt with in my life). This is why Truss railed against the "Treasury's Orthodoxy". Because everyone who knew what they were talking about was telling her she was mental. It was pure, pure ideology and it has made these strikes more likely than less as people see inflation and interest rates eating into their salary.

It's no wonder that some of these clowns rail against experts because many are simply too incompetent or too ideological to last anywhere except in the incompetent, backstabbing world of party politics.

And, hilariously, there are still some on NSC who think replacing this lot with a grey, hard working former DPP would somehow make things worse

 

[pocketseagull]

never understand why people think public owned means run direct from the ministry. the average time for a minister in post is something like 2 years, and they are usually ignorant of the brief, just there to sign off and set policy. wouldn't it be better to have running major state institutions left to those spending their life in the profession, stop political interference to boost a politician's career, or satisfy an ideological itch?

Who's accountable in this scenario?

 

[Weststander]

Then what’s the answer? Because you could equally say it‘s time to ’reform’ public transport - I don‘t mean that in any confrontational way either. The NHS and Education (and to some extent public transport) have been used as political footballs as long as I can remember - maybe a change of Government won’t come from these strikes, and if it did, would it even change anything?

I have some doubt public support for continuing disparate strike action will last, hence suggesting a General Strike might have more impact, more quickly and have more luck in precipitating a change of government. People it seems vote for and support (or don’t support) whatever they feel affects them directly- it’s probably not surprising that the nurses and teachers have the greatest public support for their strike action compared to civil servants and barristers so it’s a little bit pick and choose with the public at the moment.

Strike dates: Who is striking and what pay do they want?

Hundreds of thousands of workers have been taking part in industrial action.

www.bbc.co.uk

However, the current quasi-privatisation of the public sector eg the railway network, education and the NHS makes national strikes much harder - (legal disputes can only be between a worker and their employee - When you have multiple employees within any one sector it fragments the workforce) - Norman Tebbit’s far reaching trade relations reforms under Employment Act 1982 greatly undermined the TUs ability to call legal strike action and the ballots also undermine the chances of national action - for example, in East Anglia, I think we are one of the only regions where the ambulances have voted against strike action but in doing so, undermines public support for strike action everywhere else.

Anyway just some thoughts to ponder

The German system.

Mandatory private health insurance premiums, resulting in 21st century hospitals and clinics, only the poor/lowest paid exempt from paying.

 

[beorhthelm]

Who's accountable in this scenario?

the executive in charge of that department. who's accountable now? an MP who's been there 6mths, when problems are due to decisions made 1, 5, 10 years ago, so they side step any real responsibility.

 

[beorhthelm]

Doesn't publicly funded for the benefit of all, but with policy set by a politician who actually knows the brief sound far, far, better?

A former GP as Health Sec, former policeman / woman as Home Sec, someone who's spent time at the BoE or OBR as Chancellor etc etc. I've said this for a long time.

that would be the ideal, though not reliable you'd have competent professionals follow a political career.

 

[Guinness Boy]

that would be the ideal, though not reliable you'd have competent professionals follow a political career.

Kind of ignores my last paragraph. Starmer left the DPP's office after a full legal career but only became an MP in 2015 after doing that job. His competence and experience is what gave him the rapid rise up to Shadow Minister.

It does mean you'd have more older ministers so would need an answer to age based diversity to an extent.

 

[St Leonards Seagull]

Kind of ignores my last paragraph. Starmer left the DPP's office after a full legal career but only became an MP in 2015 after doing that job. His competence and experience is what gave him the rapid rise up to Shadow Minister.

It does mean you'd have more older ministers so would need an answer to age based diversity to an extent.

Any system that lets Therese Coffey anywhere near a cabinet let alone a health secretary is obviously very broken.

 

[Zeberdi]

The German system.

Mandatory private health insurance premiums, resulting in 21st century hospitals and clinics, only the poor/lowest paid exempt from paying.

I always understood National Insurance was us paying for our healthcare?

I agree private health insurance would finance a higher quality of medical facilities but in a means tested system, as this would be, the ‘only the poor/lowest paid’ usually means people on benefits or those with little or no savings that are entitled to benefits. There are millions in this Country on middle to low income who receive no benefits because they are working over 16 hours a week, or have saved for their retirement or own property or earn just over the basic wage - but for whom premiums on health insurance would be utterly unreachable on top of their existing overheads. I receive no State benefits (although would be much better off if I did with all the extra handouts!) but am certainly already at full stretch financially and have quite a lot of pre-existing conditions which are typically exempt from most insurance models - We would presumably have the same issues too under a private system of healthcare, as other insurance funded claims - costly and time consuming fights to get claims, expensive excess payments and no access to healthcare if you have defaulted on your premiums.

We have had a fantastic healthcare service in this country for the past 75 years not only because of a traditional excellence in care but because it is free at the point of service - more public investment is the answer and the fairest way to fund that is through increased taxation on top income brackets, inheritance tax, wealth taxes etc - Creating even greater divides between the haves and haves not, especially when it comes to getting medical treatment, or creating 2 or 3 tier health provision, is not where I want to see us heading. We should fight hard, very hard, to keep the NHS free at the point of service and support the NHS employees calling for better pay and working conditions.

 

[drew]

The German system.

Mandatory private health insurance premiums, resulting in 21st century hospitals and clinics, only the poor/lowest paid exempt from paying.

Ok, let's add an element of profit into the equation as that will benefit all!!

We should properly fund health care to the same levels as, for example, the Germans. I believe they spend about 25% more on healthcare than we do. It's not just funding though, Brexit has hit the health industry really badly by restricting overseas recruitment and then, because of the way the NHS has been treated by politicians, following the pandemic retention of nurses, for example, has become a real issue.

Social care should also be addressed but Boris's other oven ready plan for this never materialised.

On a general point, I believe the Tories would be quite happy to see a collapse of the NHS an it being replaced with an insurance based scheme as it is a money making machine and that's what this current bunch are mainly about.

 

[beorhthelm]

I always understood National Insurance was us paying for our healthcare?

NI is supposed to pay for many things, healthcare, pension, unemployment. what ever it was sold on, its really just general taxation that goes in the pot (there is some ring fencing for pension). this is another problem, politicians saying this policy, this tax will pay for this specific service delivery, never works in practice.

 

[drew]

With regard to Germany's system, exactly why do some think it is a better way of doing it. Someone seem to suggest they have 21st century hospitals, is there a link to this news because my google searches seem to suggest not. What metrics are you using to decide it's a better system?

 

[Zeberdi]

NI is supposed to pay for many things, healthcare, pension, unemployment. what ever it was sold on, its really just general taxation that goes in the pot (there is some ring fencing for pension). this is another problem, politicians saying this policy, this tax will pay for this specific service delivery, never works in practice.

I know, hence the wink - you’re right, of course, £800bn raised from our taxes to spend at will.