[Football] Crystal Palace sell £87.5m stake to US businessman

[Publius Ovidius]

If Palace’s debts of £61.1M are “crippling”, how would you describe Brighton’s debt of £67.2M?

All the time our sugar daddy supports the club financially and as a fan, the numbers are irrelevant.

If circumstances change for him or his family, that is the time that we should be worried…but that appears a long way off.

 

[Mr Putdown]

That level of investment is (laughably) peanuts in PL terms. An enormous Euromillions win doesn’t even make a dent in the investment required to produce an established (top 7) PL side.

Do you think that’s a good thing?

 

[Mr Putdown]

That level of investment is (laughably) peanuts in PL terms.

Do you seriously think that’s a good thing and something to laugh at?

If £87 million is “laughably peanuts” in your eyes, then god help football.

 

[maresfield seagull]

Do you seriously think that’s a good thing and something to laugh at?

If £87 million is “laughably peanuts” in your eyes, then god help football.

Is it an investment ? Or a purchasing of shares to that value ?
Much like the Glaziers so called investment in Manure
Self funded by offsetting the debt into loans and taking dividends each year

 

[Mr Putdown]

All the time our sugar daddy supports the club financially and as a fan, the numbers are irrelevant.

I’d like to answer that honestly but I really can’t be arsed with the idiot noise that would invariably cloud any sensible discussion on the subject simply because I support Palace.

If circumstances change for him or his family, that is the time that we should be worried…but that appears a long way off.

You might find this odd, but I genuinely hope that never happens. He is a great bloke, I only wish I could say why.

 

[Silverhatch]

Do you seriously think that’s a good thing and something to laugh at?

If £87 million is “laughably peanuts” in your eyes, then god help football.

Irony. Football’s finances are ****ed.

 

[Mr Putdown]

Is it an investment ? Or a purchasing of shares to that value ?
Much like the Glaziers so called investment in Manure
Self funded by offsetting the debt into loans and taking dividends each year

Nobody knows.

Company registration in Delaware suggests we will never know.

 

[Mr Putdown]

Irony. Football’s finances are ****ed.

Apologies, I completely missed the irony in your post.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Perhaps the thread could be re-titled as -

"Crystal Palace laugh like drains, as they sell a £87.5 m stake to some poor unsuspecting American twit."

Yep. Is he a distant relative of the yank who purchased London Bridge?

 

[Mr Putdown]

Yep. Is he a distant relative of the yank who purchased London Bridge?

Let’s hope so, Robert P. McCulloch made a fair few bob in his lifetime.

 

[Caveman]

Must be a nightmare for Parish to bring that assortment of funders together to agree on strategy. no one would ever want to be one of 5+ minority shareholders in any company. It's textbook doomed to fail territory.

Let’s hope so

 

[AZ Gull]

Let’s hope so, Robert P. McCulloch made a fair few bob in his lifetime.

Crystal Palace aren't about to be moved to Arizona, are they?

 

[Nondescript Nick]

Tony Bloom has said countless times, that he isn't going to sell up, but leave the club to his son, who is also a fan. The Bloom family have already had three generations involved on the board, so it will go to a fourth.

So your viewpoint is that it's not important to understand how the debt is being managed, because it's a 100% given that the Bloom family will be able to underwrite tens of £millions of losses indefinitely?

Though it's a nice sentiment, it doesn't seem to be the most robust of plans and surely lacks contingency?

 

[Sheebo]

£87.5m that's nearly two Ben Whites. Nice for Palace and no need to sell Zaha now ?

But that moneys not going to the club it’s going to whoever owned the shares no?

 

[Goldstone1976]

Nobody knows.

Company registration in Delaware suggests we will never know.

Parish: “I’m delighted that search led us to John, who has invested significant sums, helping to facilitate the rejuvenation of the squad, bolster the balance sheet and enable the club to finalise the Academy…” my emboldening.

Unless Parish is being economical with the truth, this is new money into the club.

The most usual interpretation of Parish’s words would be to assume that Textor has either bought new shares or given a loan to the club. A second, much less usual, interpretation of the quote is that Textor has bought shares from/made a loan to an existing shareholder who has in turn put money into the club, though if this is what has happened it would be unusual to give Textor a seat on the Board, which the club have done.

When Palace eventually (what, you have expected me not to have a little dig? Behave.) submit their accounts for this financial year (though there is, imo, a strong argument for saying that a transaction of this nature is material enough to be recorded as a post Balance Sheet event in the next set of filed accounts) we will indeed know whether new money has been put in - either the number of shares issued will have increased or the creditors (if it was a loan) will have.

None of the above changes my hope that Palace have a truly dreadful season, eclipsing Derby’s record, before plummeting down through the EFL into the National League. Obviously.

Hope you’re keeping well.

Edit: this piece in the Grauniad, if accurate, would indicate that the most likely situation I describe above is what has happened and that it is an equity investment, not a loan.

“It is hoped that Textor’s investment of £87.5m for what is believed to be a substantial percentage of the club close to Parish’s 18% controlling stake will significantly reduce debts…”, though how 18% can credibly be described as ‘controlling’ is a bit of a puzzle…

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....sell-875m-stake-to-us-businessman-john-textor

Separately, it values CPFC2010 at c£500m pre-money. Not bad for an 11-year old club.

Edit 2: I’ve only just internalised the “…will significantly reduce debts…” phrase in the Grauniad piece. New money in then, but also at least some (all?) straight back out to the creditor(s). To the extent it’s debt reduction, that money doesn’t do anything other than pay off a loan. Only the amount not used to pay off debt is available to spend on extra cladding.

 

[Taybha]

And 499 million of that is just Wilf .

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So your viewpoint is that it's not important to understand how the debt is being managed, because it's a 100% given that the Bloom family will be able to underwrite tens of £millions of losses indefinitely?

Though it's a nice sentiment, it doesn't seem to be the most robust of plans and surely lacks contingency?

That isn’t what I said.

 

[Brovion]

Its not as good as ours tho... no matter how many times you try to convince yourselves...

Hmmm. See below:

If Palace’s debts of £61.1M are “crippling”, how would you describe Brighton’s debt of £67.2M?

I really don't think we're in a position to gloat when our debts are bigger than Palace's (and it's not all covered by TB). It's a pity that the Palace fans' contributions to this thread are sneered at just because they're Palace. Fair enough a bit of banter about dumb Americans, but the problems of football finance affect all of us.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Hmmm. See below:


I really don't think we're in a position to gloat when our debts are bigger than Palace's (and it's not all covered by TB). It's a pity that the Palace fans' contributions to this thread are sneered at just because they're Palace. Fair enough a bit of banter about dumb Americans, but the problems of football finance affect all of us.

Neither of [MENTION=1721]Mr Putdown[/MENTION]’s numbers are debt. They are both the losses in a single year. The total non-trading debt at Palace and the Albion (in both cases just looking at the football club, not the topco holding company) is £76m and £244m respectively. These facts further strengthens your underlying point.

 

[Jim in the West]

Edit: this piece in the Grauniad, if accurate, would indicate that the most likely situation I describe above is what has happened and that it is an equity investment, not a loan.

“It is hoped that Textor’s investment of £87.5m for what is believed to be a substantial percentage of the club close to Parish’s 18% controlling stake will significantly reduce debts…”, though how 18% can credibly be described as ‘controlling’ is a bit of a puzzle…

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....sell-875m-stake-to-us-businessman-john-textor

Separately, it values CPFC2010 at c£500m pre-money. Not bad for an 11-year old club.

Edit 2: I’ve only just internalised the “…will significantly reduce debts…” phrase in the Grauniad piece. New money in then, but also at least some (all?) straight back out to the creditor(s). To the extent it’s debt reduction, that money doesn’t do anything other than pay off a loan. Only the amount not used to pay off debt is available to spend on extra cladding.

I don't understand the Guardian's reference to "significantly reduce debts". Elsewhere it's stated that the new investment hasn't diluted Parrish's stake, so presumably no new voting shares have been issued. Which presumably means that Textor has acquired his shares from an existing shareholder - which obviously means the money goes to the out-going shareholder, not CPFC2010. But there are also comments that Textor has helped fund some of the recent player acquisitions - which presumably he did via loans. But the Guardian piece also implies that the whole of the £87.5m was the price of acquiring his stake of around (but just below) 18%. But it's highly, highly unlikely that Palace are worth anywhere near £500m, which is the implied valuation if the whole investment was in exchange for the 18% holding. So my guess would be that he initially loaned money to the club (and maybe that loan has been converted into non-voting preference shares, for example)...and also acquired a stake from an outgoing investor, but for less than the £89m figure.

I don't think we'll ever know the details, as Palace are (I believe) ultimately owned by a company registered in Delaware, which seems to be designed to maintain a certain amount of anonymity. But on the face of it, this seems to be good news for Palace.