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Craig Mackail-Smith

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Braggfan

Members
May 12, 2014
1,637
Yes he was. When Poyet signed him, he said he was going to build the team around him. This never happened. He was used to playing as part of a strike partnership and Poyet consistently played him upfront on his own. I’d say we were partially responsible for wrecking his career!

I've always thought CMS was a strange signing because although there was absolutely no arguing with is goal scoring record at Peterborough, he just didn't fit our style of play. At Peterborough he played on one of the smallest pitches in the league. It was easy for defenders to start counter attacks by playing it over the top and CMS would just sit on the shoulder of opposing defenders waiting for the ball over the top. He was perfectly suited to that. But when we signed him, we were playing a patient possesion based football, where we would build attacks from the back on one of the largest pitches in the football league. The style we played was the polar opposite of Peterborough's. I don't want to say he was one dimensional because that would be a diservice but I just mean he needed a specific style and service to thrive and we just weren't set up for that at the time.

Funnily enough though I always thought if it had been a few years later and CMS had been joining Hughton's Championship side, I think that style would have suited him. As we were very quick on the break and liked to get balls into the box to centre forward.
 
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Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
28,332
Hove
Yes he was. When Poyet signed him, he said he was going to build the team around him. This never happened. He was used to playing as part of a strike partnership and Poyet consistently played him upfront on his own. I’d say we were partially responsible for wrecking his career!

Great to have these debates again. In his entire career he only scored more than 15 league goals in a season twice, both in League One in a team built around him. Sandwiched between those 2 seasons was a season in the Championship with a strike partner and team built around him and he got 10 goals. He just had a golden 2 or 3 years at P’Boro where everything fell into place around him, tactics, team mates etc. His stats everywhere else whether National League, League Two are nothing to write home about. To say we were partially responsible for wrecking his career is a bit ridiculous tbh had it not been for Poyet staking so much on him, I think he’d have played a lot less than he did.
 

blue-shifted

Banned
Feb 20, 2004
7,645
a galaxy far far away
Great to have these debates again. In his entire career he only scored more than 15 league goals in a season twice, both in League One in a team built around him. Sandwiched between those 2 seasons was a season in the Championship with a strike partner and team built around him and he got 10 goals. He just had a golden 2 or 3 years at P’Boro where everything fell into place around him, tactics, team mates etc. His stats everywhere else whether National League, League Two are nothing to write home about. To say we were partially responsible for wrecking his career is a bit ridiculous tbh had it not been for Poyet staking so much on him, I think he’d have played a lot less than he did.

Yes. It was injury that destroyed his career
 
Aug 6, 2011
4,010
Bognor Regis
It would appear that Ivan Toney also plays on the shoulder, looking for his speed to give him an advantage over the defenders.
It will be interesting to see where he ends up and how his career goes.
 

Zamoracomehome

Members
Apr 12, 2010
440
Hove

Tom Hark Preston Park

Lost to the vultures
Jul 6, 2003
65,675
I've always thought CMS was a strange signing because although there was absolutely no arguing with is goal scoring record at Peterborough, he just didn't fit our style of play. At Peterborough he played on one of the smallest pitches in the league. It was easy for defenders to start counter attacks by playing it over the top and CMS would just sit on the shoulder of opposing defenders waiting for the ball over the top. He was perfectly suited to that. But when we signed him, we were playing a patient possesion based football, where we would build attacks from the back on one of the largest pitches in the football league. The style we played was the polar opposite of Peterborough's. I don't want to say he was one dimensional because that would be a diservice but I just mean he needed a specific style and service to thrive and we just weren't set up for that at the time.

Funnily enough though I always thought if it had been a few years later and CMS had been joining Hughton's Championship side, I think that style would have suited him. As we were very quick on the break and liked to get balls into the box to centre forward.

Peterborough were a real lower level crazy gang. Played kick'n'rush like we did in school. The season before we signed CMS their stats were something head-mental like Goals For:100, Goals Against: 100. Naive in the extreme to just expect the CMS goals to just keep rolling in against a hjgher class of defender that wouldn't be outdone that easily
 


RossyG

Members
Dec 20, 2014
2,630
Yes, good for him. I think more people are realising that this has been a huge and calamitous overreaction.
 

Grombleton

Surrounded by <div>s
Dec 31, 2011
7,356
Peterborough were a real lower level crazy gang. Played kick'n'rush like we did in school. The season before we signed CMS their stats were something head-mental like Goals For:100, Goals Against: 100. Naive in the extreme to just expect the CMS goals to just keep rolling in against a hjgher class of defender that wouldn't be outdone that easily

I had to look that up just to double check if they were really that bad:

2010-2011:

Goals For: 106 (highest in the league)
Goals Against: 75 (joint-second worst).

Insanity
 

CheeseRolls

Members
Jan 27, 2009
5,409
Shoreham Beach
I've always thought CMS was a strange signing because although there was absolutely no arguing with is goal scoring record at Peterborough, he just didn't fit our style of play. At Peterborough he played on one of the smallest pitches in the league. It was easy for defenders to start counter attacks by playing it over the top and CMS would just sit on the shoulder of opposing defenders waiting for the ball over the top. He was perfectly suited to that. But when we signed him, we were playing a patient possesion based football, where we would build attacks from the back on one of the largest pitches in the football league. The style we played was the polar opposite of Peterborough's. I don't want to say he was one dimensional because that would be a diservice but I just mean he needed a specific style and service to thrive and we just weren't set up for that at the time.

Funnily enough though I always thought if it had been a few years later and CMS had been joining Hughton's Championship side, I think that style would have suited him. As we were very quick on the break and liked to get balls into the box to centre forward.

Gus was looking to create a bargain basement Barcelona. What he saw in CMS was high energy, which meant defending from the front (win it back and keep it). In hindsight it does seem bizarre trying to kick start possession football, by signing a kick and rush forward. Towards the end of his spell with the club, CMS got a massive roar of approval from the home fans, when he sprinted 40 metres, closed down a defender and conceeded a throw in. By contrast the Murray who left Brighton at that time, was much more a traditional centre forward, who saved his energy for the penalty area. The Murray that returned to the club to me, had a much more rounded game and his hold up play and all round contribution had gone up a level.
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
Oct 8, 2003
40,570
Faversham
Remember you lot saying how much more you prefer him to Lambert and how much longer he would be scoring for you.
Neither player lasted much longer at our clubs in the end.

You're being a tad over generous, I feel:

Lambert games (goals)

2009–2014 Southampton 207 (106)

Macka

2011–2015 Brighton & Hove Albion 109 (21)
 


Baldseagull

Members
Jan 26, 2012
9,714
Crawley
Always frustrated me that when opposition played a high back line against us to constrain the space that we didn't punt a couple of balls through for CMS to run onto.
 

Betfair Bozo

Members
Jul 24, 2007
2,081
It would appear that Ivan Toney also plays on the shoulder, looking for his speed to give him an advantage over the defenders.
It will be interesting to see where he ends up and how his career goes.


Toney has pace but also good movement. I have thought since his first spell at Scunthorpe that he would be better the higher he goes. There is no point in making the right run if your team-mates can't spot or execute the pass. I expect his next move will prove me right or wrong but I think he is worth a punt for someone. No surprise that Brentford were interested.
 

marlowe

Members
Dec 13, 2015
3,734
The shirt of his current club Stevenage is pretty appalling.

Bizarrely it appears to be modelled on an inverted version of the old staff uniform of their shirt sponsor's biggest competitors...

download.jpeg

mcdonalds_uniform_1976.jpg
 

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