[Misc] Covid jabs and prioritising

[Iggle Piggle]

The problem I have is who is a key worker. I am delivering to food preparation factories and Pharmaceuticals including Pfizer in Sandwhich also other co.panties and industry, should I be prioritised? I think leaving it how it is he best way forward. Looking at some of the company's I am delivering to, makes me wonder why are they open.
On 5 live yesterday an estate agent was demanding that they should be prioritised, due to the amount of viewings they are getting asked for. sorry but moving house or looking to view a house whilst this is going on is ****ing stupid. What part of stay at home do these people not understand.

Rightly or wrongly, what constitutes the key worker is on gov.uk albeit with a element of vagueness about it some areas. Shiny suited estate agents aren't on the list no matter how much Martin from Basingstoke thinks he should be

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...horities-on-maintaining-educational-provision

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I've been having an interesting ongoing discussion with my wife about how prioritising Covid jabs has just been "accepted" by the population at large. My Dad had his first jab today and so it's prompted me to get a wider view, especially when I found out recently that Indonesia has started to vaccinate the economically active first.

There seems to be this acceptance that old people simply must be immunised first because they're most at risk in terms of mortality rates. But surely it's not as simple as that is it?

I'm looking at my two student age kids and my parents. My boomer parents have seen the world, made their money, had a life where university education was completely free, pensions were bulletproof, and mortgages easy to obtain. Now they're first in line for jabs. Meanwhile my student age kids have had none of that and are clearly exposed to potential mental health problems. Two years of A levels, along with college and student life completely written off will do that, and they're not being considered at all.

I look at my parents and wonder whether - having had full and fortunate lives - they should have been the ones staying inside, cared for by my generation (in terms of provisions) and other vulnerable sectors of society been at the front of the queue.

Just putting it out there - I find it very strange that whilst some things are vehemently debated, there is a widespread acceptance that the elderly should go first.

Without looking at the responses, I imagine you have upset a few with this post but I tend to agree with this.

I would have approached it slightly differently than you:

I would have started with Key workers - this would free up Schools/PublicTransport/Supermarket workers- those that are in the front line -

This would allow more kids to return to school and more public transport to help stop some of the crush out side of the schools with everyone people dropped off - Freeing up the schools also
Takes the pressure of parents.

Doing care workers and NHS staff should help with infection rates in hospitals and care homes which is still the problem area,plus helping with staff numbers due to some needing to isolate as much/for so long.


Then I would jab the 50-65 group - this allows those most at risk that are still working/more likely to be caring for older generations/Kids still at school to be protected.

Then move on to the older generations

 

[Kosh]

My daughter (5) is fortunately going to school two days a week as my wife is a key worker but she's still really suffering. She's not eating properly, she won't sleep, she's miserable, she's anxious. I'm really worried this is going to have a permanent damaging effect on her personality and her mental health. That's why.

None of that surprises me, our daughter has exhibited all of the above and worse - prior to Covid we’d seen nothing like it since she was a baby. We’ve had bed wetting, bizarre mood swings/personality changes (at night) refusal to sleep - getting up all night to ‘wee’ - all clear signs of Covid anxiety... we’ve gone out of our way not to discuss it much in the home, alas even that hasn’t helped as (for me) school (we’re both key workers) have rammed fear into the children who have attended ... the only way to alter this is to alleviate the ‘fear’ within teachers etc. by vaccinating them at the earliest opportunity.

Your post is spot on - thanks for putting it out there, it’s good (not good, but supportive) to read it’s not just us. Thanks Notters

 

[dazzer6666]

Without looking at the responses, I imagine you have upset a few with this post but I tend to agree with this.

I would have approached it slightly differently than you:

I would have started with Key workers - this would free up Schools/PublicTransport/Supermarket workers- those that are in the front line -

This would allow more kids to return to school and more public transport to help stop some of the crush out side of the schools with everyone people dropped off - Freeing up the schools also
Takes the pressure of parents.

Doing care workers and NHS staff should help with infection rates in hospitals and care homes which is still the problem area,plus helping with staff numbers due to some needing to isolate as much/for so long.


Then I would jab the 50-65 group - this allows those most at risk that are still working/more likely to be caring for older generations/Kids still at school to be protected.

Then move on to the older generations

Two thirds of hospital admissions and 90% of deaths are in the O65s......so you won’t stop many of those with that strategy, and the NHS would collapse.

 

[LamieRobertson]

My daughter (5) is fortunately going to school two days a week as my wife is a key worker but she's still really suffering. She's not eating properly, she won't sleep, she's miserable, she's anxious. I'm really worried this is going to have a permanent damaging effect on her personality and her mental health. That's why.

My daughters a primary school teacher .....trying to teach children..some face to face, some remotely...what you say about your own child is certainly not unusual from what she tells me....even my grandson is showing signs of being affected even though he is attending school...only his second term..but his normal teacher isn’t there as aren’t his mates ...wish you all the best

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Quite a number of the O70s (particularly the O80s) would never make it to ICU........and if they did would never make it out, so the numbers aren’t really surprising.

Yep, I get that. What's strikes me is that

1. Vaccination won't dent hospitals being over run in the short term on those numbers. Lockdown will, which is why I don't think much will change for some months.
2. Protecting the NHS would be better served with a different strategy albeit I can understand why they have done what they have done. Boris would be taken to the cleaners if they'd ignored the elderly and it is as much political decision as anything. Its a complex problem and there is something to be said for keeping it simple. People perceive it to be "fair" which is a very British thing even if under the bonnet there is a strong argument to say it is anything but.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Two thirds of hospital admissions and 90% of deaths are in the O65s......so you won’t stop many of those with that strategy, and the NHS would collapse.

Why would it collapse ?

We would still be in lockdown

If you stop infections getting into care homes and hospitals which you have to assume is mainly staff the numbers will fall as well.

Infection control in those places are horrible.

 

[jessiejames]

Rightly or wrongly, what constitutes the key worker is on gov.uk albeit with a element of vagueness about it some areas. Shiny suited estate agents aren't on the list no matter how much Martin from Basingstoke thinks he should be

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...horities-on-maintaining-educational-provision

Exactly, but this lockdown it seems everyone can be a key worker. My company is signed up with a scheme run by the NHS and Government, they had to prove that we were an essential service, this was easy due to what we deliver and to what companies. This was back when the lorry drivers started fuel protests. We were given passes by the NHS and Government as proof, we could then have priority in filling up not only our lorries but also our cars with fuel to be able to work. We were given these passes just before the first lockdown as proof. Surely only companies signed up to this should be allowed to operate during lockdown.

 

[LamieRobertson]

This is a good discussion though and one I have just taken to the evening meal round the table with wife and 17 yo daughter, both of them in complete agreement with you.


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Agree...and It’s good that Simster sort of stuck his neck out a bit so it can be discussed (hopefully sensibly)

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Exactly, but this lockdown it seems everyone can be a key worker. My company is signed up with a scheme run by the NHS and Government, they had to prove that we were an essential service, this was easy due to what we deliver and to what companies. This was back when the lorry drivers started fuel protests. We were given passes by the NHS and Government as proof, we could then have priority in filling up not only our lorries but also our cars with fuel to be able to work. We were given these passes just before the first lockdown as proof. Surely only companies signed up to this should be allowed to operate during lockdown.

I think a simple question of “is the majority of your day spent customer facing” should get around that

 

[Chicken Run]

Agree...and It’s good that Simster sort of stuck his neck out a bit so it can be discussed (hopefully sensibly)

Brave thread to start, if it had been I’d have been taken apart[emoji23]


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[LamieRobertson]

Brave thread to start, if it had been I’d have been taken apart[emoji23]


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Lol..likewise!

 

[dazzer6666]

Why would it collapse ?

We would still be in lockdown

If you stop infections getting into care homes and hospitals which you have to assume is mainly staff the numbers will fall as well.

Infection control in those places are horrible.

We haven’t stopped the O65s getting infected so far........(I think partly because they are amongst the biggest non-compliant group). Agree re care homes (agency staff the biggest problem going from home to home perhaps ?)

There’s also a massive push to get out of lockdown - getting the majority that are likely to end up dead or in hospital protected is the quickest way to do that.

 

[jessiejames]

I delivered to a small garage today, I asked if he was busy, he said he has never been busier, he said people who have been furlough are bringing in there cars earlier to be serviced whilst they are off work. is have your car serviced early essential? The stay at home message is not getting through

 

[Baker lite]

Excellent thread, good to see it being debated robustly and in a courteous manner. It seems the right thing to do, to vaccinate the elderly and vulnerable first , it seems that, for the moment we as a nation have got it spot on, at this rate the whole country (those that want it of course ) will be vaccinated by early Autumn.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Exactly, but this lockdown it seems everyone can be a key worker. My company is signed up with a scheme run by the NHS and Government, they had to prove that we were an essential service, this was easy due to what we deliver and to what companies. This was back when the lorry drivers started fuel protests. We were given passes by the NHS and Government as proof, we could then have priority in filling up not only our lorries but also our cars with fuel to be able to work. We were given these passes just before the first lockdown as proof. Surely only companies signed up to this should be allowed to operate during lockdown.

Some of the "key worker" children at my lads school is laughable. People are taking the piss and it is something that could easily be curbed. I have all sorts to show the rozzers if I'm stopped out and about.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I delivered to a small garage today, I asked if he was busy, he said he has never been busier, he said people who have been furlough are bringing in there cars earlier to be serviced whilst they are off work. is have your car serviced early essential? The stay at home message is not getting through

Personally I wouldn’t get too het up over cars being serviced...people probably using them more instead of public transport....and looking at the A27 tonight at what is normally called rush hour time...it was very quiet

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

We haven’t stopped the O65s getting infected so far........(I think partly because they are amongst the biggest non-compliant group). Agree re care homes (agency staff the biggest problem going from home to home perhaps ?)

There’s also a massive push to get out of lockdown - getting the majority that are likely to end up dead or in hospital protected is the quickest way to do that.

I’m classing them slightly differently to you I 50-65 - so it may not apply as much for the O65

But for the age bracket I’m suggesting potentially has most chances of infections


1. Working
2. Kids in education
3. Likely to spend more time in shops - larger families
4. Parents that need help/caring for - visits

So are more likely to be out.

I accept I’ve assumed a lot here.

We are also coming from different ideas on when lockdown is lifted.

 

[jessiejames]

I think a simple question of “is the majority of your day spent customer facing” should get around that

A majority of the delivery are customer facing. I could be on-site for an hour, other companies I leave and collect at back door.

 

[Bozza]

I look at my parents and wonder whether - having had full and fortunate lives - they should have been the ones staying inside, cared for by my generation (in terms of provisions) and other vulnerable sectors of society been at the front of the queue.

Alternatively...

- The older folks who have 5-20 years life left - let's give them the best possible chance of living that.
- The youngsters who have decades and decades to live - they can afford to put life on pause for a few months.

And that's the long and short of it given where we are now. With a bit of luck on the vaccine/variant front, we'll begin emerging from this terrible period in 3-4 months. We're not talking years and, regardless of what you think we could/should have done 10 months ago, we can't change that now.

I think my learned friend [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] is likely correct though. Any other strategy does little to throttle the burden on the NHS in the short term, and it's at breaking point already. We just have to give those incredible people in the NHS going through hell day after day the quickest possible escape from that and, by coincidence, doing that is also likely to save thousands of lives.