Corbyn's Republicanism, The Privy Council and national security

[alfredmizen]

Pathetic journalism by the Tory Graph and to think people are taken in by this shit. I'm no Corbyn fan but the rubbish written by the right wing press is laughable.

there is nothing to be ''taken in '' by, its there in black and white.

 

[Pavilionaire]

it was a joke mate , i said it because ive been hammered for starting too many anti corbyn threads.

That's why I started a separate thread - Corbyn's absence of action and his confirmed republicanism have highlighted an important issue.

 

[HH Brighton]

there is nothing to be ''taken in '' by, its there in black and white.

Oh dear !!

 

[BigGully]

You're twisting things. I'm saying that most countries should only use the military to defend their territory. That's why I described it as not a bad rule-of-thumb. I also characterised it as a tad simplistic, because there are exceptions to this rule. Declaring war on the Nazis would be one such exception.

I really wasnt, it didnt seem to make much sense.

So all you are saying if in power you would only use military force only if in your mind (or Corbyns in this instance) you felt it would be warranted, which is about where every government that has ever existed has done, whether you agree with those decisions or not.

Its no good saying we wouldnt deploy outside of our territory and then saying 'but we would in certain circumstances', it doesnt tell us anything.

 

[beorhthelm]

one of the details/confusions that seems to go by in the reporting, which is making a big play on the swearing the oath to the Queen, is that many of those admitted to the PC do so in absence of the Queen, taking the same oath just not before her. Foreign PMs of the Commonwealth and such. what is unclear is why Corbyn hasnt tried to take this route, or if he has done and not been allowed. apparently his office have to arrange the first audience/oath taking, not the Privy Council, so it may be that in the brouhaha over the issue they haven't explored the options, assuming he has to attend. or perhaps he just doesn't want to do the oath either way (though would have given oath to Queen to sit in Parliament).

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I'm not quite so sure that it's the Queen exercising influence here. It's Conservative politicians and, even more so, the conservative (i.e. most of) media that are exerting influence on this issue.

I think it is a technicality that he can't be "Right Honourable" until he has seen the Queen and done the necessary.

Can't help feeling it is being blown up out of all proportion - Mountains out of Molehills. I can't imagine the queen is particularly bothered. And I would consider myself a republican..

 

[Don Quixote]

He's already made an oath on becoming an MP so he can't have that much against the Queen. Maybe he doesn't agree with the council. It is a bit dated.

 

[Machiavelli]

I really wasnt, it didnt seem to make much sense.

So all you are saying if in power you would only use military force only if in your mind (or Corbyns in this instance) you felt it would be warranted, which is about where every government that has ever existed has done, whether you agree with those decisions or not.

Its no good saying we wouldnt deploy outside of our territory and then saying 'but we would in certain circumstances', it doesnt tell us anything.

Apologies for not making much sense, but that follow-up post clarified as far as I could/can.

 

[BigGully]

Apologies for not making much sense, but that follow-up post clarified as far as I could/can.

I really wasnt taking a swipe, I hadnt known what might have been Corbyns official position on this, beyond the unilateralist and likely pacifist, your own interpretation with the 'non deployment outside of territory' bit then came the caveat with exceptions which seemed to invalidate the territory bit anyway.

It all seemed a bit of a muddle, which seems to be Corbyns problem at the moment.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The OP wanted to hear what Labour supporters with monarchist sympathies think about his actions, or lack thereof. I can't see how refusing to sing the National Anthem at a Battle of Britain memorial service or take an oath which is part of the job he applied for is going to add to his popularity amongst the wider public. Considering his past links to terrorist groups the 'right wing' press were always going to go after him, his current actions continue to give them plenty of ammunition.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The OP wanted to hear what Labour supporters with monarchist sympathies think about his actions, or lack thereof. I can't see how refusing to sing the National Anthem at a Battle of Britain memorial service or take an oath which is part of the job he applied for is going to add to his popularity amongst the wider public. Considering his past links to terrorist groups the 'right wing' press were always going to go after him, his current actions continue to give them plenty of ammunition.

Isn't too much being made of the influence of the "right wing press"? Ordinary people don't need to read the Daily Mail to have an opinion on his actions or his words because most people already know where they stand on monarchy and the IRA.

 

[mikeyjh]

I see the media are running the story that the Queen's officers have stripped Corbyn of the title "Right Honourable" as he has not yet taken the oath and been sworn in to the Privy Council.

I'm mindful that Cameron took 3 months to get sworn in, but on the other hand Cameron wasn't a committed republican, he hadn't shown IRA sympathies and hadn't chosen to be silent whilst being filmed during the playing of the National Anthem.

It looks to me as though Corbyn is letting this "allegiance to the Crown" issue drift and as each day passes without him swearing the oath it seems to me he becomes that much less electable. I'm interested to know what Labour supporters with monarchist sympathies think about his actions, or lack thereof.

Crucially, the leader of the Opposition's membership of the Privy Council entitles them to receive briefings on matters of National Security. Do we really want our Opposition leader to be outside this important inner circle? Could he conceivably carry out his duties as Prime Minister without being a member of the Privy Council?

I am so impressed that Corbyn chooses to treat such matters with the disdain they deserve, it's a custom that belongs in history and should be left there.

In terms of the monarchy, I'm going to guess that most traditional Labour supporters would be instinctively, if not actively, republicans.I totally respect the Queen and some members of the family, but they should have no part in running the country. That is an inherited privilege that serves Cameron and his chums so well.....

 

[DataPoint]

Exactly. For a modern functioning democracy, this is a ludicrous state of affairs.

I do wonder how long this idea of a constitutional monarchy can survive - it was workable when the Queen was seen a ceremonial figurehead but now we can see that she has a direct influence on politics, we may well see some profound political shifts.

What a boost for the Monarchy the labour leader is! Anyone fancy President Corbyn?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Isn't too much being made of the influence of the "right wing press"? Ordinary people don't need to read the Daily Mail to have an opinion on his actions or his words because most people already know where they stand on monarchy and the IRA.

Yes way too much. Easier for some to blame the press rather than face up to the many obvious flaws of Labours current leader.

 

[alfredmizen]

I am so impressed that Corbyn chooses to treat such matters with the disdain they deserve, it's a custom that belongs in history and should be left there.

In terms of the monarchy, I'm going to guess that most traditional Labour supporters would be instinctively, if not actively, republicans.I totally respect the Queen and some members of the family, but they should have no part in running the country. That is an inherited privilege that serves Cameron and his chums so well.....

Im going to guess that you've never met a traditional working class labour voter in your life and that you make the mistake of considering the sort of soppy anti british, guilt ridden tosspots who make up a lot of the activists within labour as ''traditional'' whereas a lot of the working class labour vote would vote for them but hold views that would be considered conservative with a small c on such topics as patriotism and the monarchy.

 

[alfredmizen]

Oh dear !!

good point, well made.

 

[The Spanish]

He's going for the gig of PM in 21st century peacetime. This isn't the middle ages. Who do you want? Putin? If he's available.

The 21st century will be the most violent in history and we will see a world war that will make the last two seem like playground scuffles. That's absolutely nailed on.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Isn't too much being made of the influence of the "right wing press"? Ordinary people don't need to read the Daily Mail to have an opinion on his actions or his words because most people already know where they stand on monarchy and the IRA.

It's only the Telegraph & Mail reporting this 'story'. The truth seems to be a lot more muddled. He hasn't attended a meeting because he took a holiday, and it doesn't seem as though he's been given the title yet, to have it taken away. Believe me, I'm no Corbyn fan, but I don't believe everything I read in the press either.

https://www.rt.com/uk/318357-corbyn-title-privy-council/

 

[HH Brighton]

It's only the Telegraph & Mail reporting this 'story'. The truth seems to be a lot more muddled. He hasn't attended a meeting because he took a holiday, and it doesn't seem as though he's been given the title yet, to have it taken away. Believe me, I'm no Corbyn fan, but I don't believe everything I read in the press either.

https://www.rt.com/uk/318357-corbyn-title-privy-council/

You would have thought so wouldn't you but you've only got to look at posts from people like alfredmizen on this thread to see how much people take notice of this stuff. 1 in 4 people voted Tory at the last election which shows the influence the press have and also the effect of the conservative spin machine have, people genuinely believe this stuff.

 

[pastafarian]

Sadly, he will not even get to contest the next general election, so no, it doesn't really matter.

But it makes for a damn good panto with a Mr Punch character thrown in for good measure, marvellous stuff!

I agree
Corbyn is proving to be nothing more than an irrelevant dick head.

He doesnt deserve all the column inches he gets,but the general public are just being human and lapping it up from the media.
Everyone likes rubbernecking a car crash after all,this is the best political one we have had for years.