Corbyn's "flexible football ticket"

[BadFish]

Tell me why it matters? Every country in the world has it. Your solution is to steal the wealth of people that make a lot of money?

How is my solution of narrowing the disparity between CEO and average worker stealing wealth? This would only be the case if you consider a company's income the property of the CEO. I suppose this is a logical conclusion to trickle down economics.

 

[Rod Marsh]

How is my solution of narrowing the disparity between CEO and average worker stealing wealth? This would only be the case if you consider a company's income the property of the CEO. I suppose this is a logical conclusion to trickle down economics.

What you are doing is deciding what someone else should be paid. What gives you the right to do that?

 

[BadFish]

What you are doing is deciding what someone else should be paid. What gives you the right to do that?

No, I am suggesting that the huge disparity of saleries/wages is currently both unfair and indicitive of greed being a massive barrier to the success of trickle down economics.

Market forces are being distorted by greed and people are getting paid far in excess of what they are worth while others are getting short changed.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[Rod Marsh]

No, I am suggesting that the huge disparity of saleries/wages is currently both unfair and indicitive of greed being a massive barrier to the success of trickle down economics.

Market forces are being distorted by greed and people are getting paid far in excess of what they are worth while others are getting short changed.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Well I disagree. You earn whatever the market decides you are worth.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

No, I am suggesting that the huge disparity of saleries/wages is currently both unfair and indicitive of greed being a massive barrier to the success of trickle down economics.

Market forces are being distorted by greed and people are getting paid far in excess of what they are worth while others are getting short changed.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Go work for someone who pays more rather than staying there if you feel you're being exploited (even if it means that you have to retrain for and undertake a different career path)

People are not forced to stay in the same job and working for the same employer, earning the same money. They have a choice and can move elsewhere by applying for and getting a better job anytime they like.

 

[beorhthelm]

No, I am suggesting that the huge disparity of saleries/wages is currently both unfair and indicitive of greed being a massive barrier to the success of trickle down economics.

Market forces are being distorted by greed and people are getting paid far in excess of what they are worth while others are getting short changed.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

curious what market you think is being distorted by a CEO getting paid more than someone on the "shop floor".

and since its a football forum, why is the focus on CEO/worker pay when we have some of the starkest pay disparity right here in football player vs club staff. shouldnt we be calling for players wages to be substantially cut?

 

[GT49er]

What you are doing is deciding what someone else should be paid. What gives you the right to do that?

Is that a different sort of right to the right of the well paid CEO to decide what to pay the lower paid people working under him?

 

[Rod Marsh]

Is that a different sort of right to the right of the well paid CEO to decide what to pay the lower paid people working under him?

Yes. When you accept a job you accept the pay and benefits. It's an agreement between two parties.

 

[GT49er]

.........................................what exactly are you doing to make yourself better off rather than demanding that it handed to you on a plate from those who are better off than you??

What a patronising, ill-informed and insulting comment. I'm retired now, so apart from a bit of part time work I'm not doing a lot to make myself better off now (and apart from the old age pension, I'm not getting any financial state benefits) but I spent 40 years busting a gut in not very well paid work that I didn't enjoy - indeed, some of the time I hated it - in order to bring up a family with food in their mouths and a roof over their heads. I didn't demand any benefits - I worked for all I had, so you can probably imagine the low esteem in which I hold crass comments such as yours.

Oh, and before you re-iterate some more of your bullshit, you can't always just move to better paid employment. Stupid idea. You can apply, but it is in someone else's hands entirely, not your own, whether they decide to employ you. You can do the best possible cv, and perform well at interview, but if they prefer to employ someone else, that's an end to it.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

How is my solution of narrowing the disparity between CEO and average worker stealing wealth? This would only be the case if you consider a company's income the property of the CEO. I suppose this is a logical conclusion to trickle down economics.

It comes down to supply and demand, the more people capable of doing a particular job, the more competition there is for that role and the wages are kept lower as a result, when there are limited numbers and those are in demand from a number of employers, then wages go up.

It could be part of the reason why Brexit happened, the less skilled jobs had an influx of cheap labour from Europe and this kept wages low and helped open up the gap between the skilled workers wage and poorer, less skilled pay rates?

Supply and demand, ad there was an increased supply of labour which exceeded the demand of that labour and therefore led to wage deflation in some areas and low increases in others.

Maybe if the Government didn't keep spending all the tax revenue as they receive it, and instead ring-fenced pension contributions for the individual for when they retire, then there would be more cash for you and less of a need for you to work part time, which you could still if you wanted to do it as something you enjoy or to further increase your income) Instead they spend (waste) that tax money on things like this in a populist move to get votes

 

[GT49er]

Yes. When you accept a job you accept the pay and benefits. It's an agreement between two parties.

Ha, ha, ha! Been for a lot of jobs where the salary offered is £20K pa, been offered the job, but then turned round and asked for (and got) £30K per year because that's what you'd like to be paid have you? Thought not.........

 

[Rod Marsh]

Ha, ha, ha! Been for a lot of jobs where the salary offered is £20K pa, been offered the job, but then turned round and asked for (and got) £30K per year because that's what you'd like to be paid have you? Thought not.........

And if you don't get the money you want then it's your choice not to accept the position. Pretty simple.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

What a patronising, ill-informed and insulting comment. I'm retired now, so apart from a bit of part time work I'm not doing a lot to make myself better off now (and apart from the old age pension, I'm not getting any financial state benefits) but I spent 40 years busting a gut in not very well paid work that I didn't enjoy - indeed, some of the time I hated it - in order to bring up a family with food in their mouths and a roof over their heads. I didn't demand any benefits - I worked for all I had, so you can probably imagine the low esteem in which I hold crass comments such as yours.

Oh, and before you re-iterate some more of your bullshit, you can't always just move to better paid employment. Stupid idea. You can apply, but it is in someone else's hands entirely, not your own, whether they decide to employ you. You can do the best possible cv, and perform well at interview, but if they prefer to employ someone else, that's an end to it.

You can make yourself more employable by your own actions, by doing things like training. Or you can do nothing to improve your lot.

If you accept and carry on with where you were, that was your choice. What you shouldn't do is then say that those opportunities to improve your situation were never there and not worth the effort to try.

Necessity often drives people to improve themselves, and if they don't need to lift their income, invariably they don't push themselves and benefit from that effort (I would agree that this applies to me, i could have done a lot more and be earning a lot more money than i do now, but i haven't put the effort in and can't expect the same money as if i had and blame others for my situation or say it's due to greed or exploitation by the rich /business)

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Ha, ha, ha! Been for a lot of jobs where the salary offered is £20K pa, been offered the job, but then turned round and asked for (and got) £30K per year because that's what you'd like to be paid have you? Thought not.........

Why apply for that job at £20k if you weren't willing to accept the conditions offered (ie, the pay rate)

Why, when working for that £20k pa, don't they continue to apply for a better paid job that offers £30k? and move when they get something that pays more rather than settling for that £20k job?

 

[BadFish]

Yes. When you accept a job you accept the pay and benefits. It's an agreement between two parties.

....and since the unions have been dismantled, which party holds all the power in this agreement?

The one earning a hundred times more than the other.

 

[BadFish]

curious what market you think is being distorted by a CEO getting paid more than someone on the "shop floor".

As I have said I have no problem with a CEO getting paid more that someone on the 'shop floor'.

and since its a football forum, why is the focus on CEO/worker pay when we have some of the starkest pay disparity right here in football player vs club staff. shouldnt we be calling for players wages to be substantially cut?

A fantastic example, footballers shouldn't be getting paid the ridiculous sums they do (do you really think they should?) while other people at the clum are on mimimum wage. Add to this the fact that it is the supporters who have to pay more to subsidise their ridiulous pay.

Again in football the market is distorted by the Superclubs who have money to burn and pay excessive fees and wages (while still emplying others on minimum wage) forcing other clubs to risk everything (and often lose) in order to keep up. Again another example where trickle down economics is not working.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

As I have said I have no problem with a CEO getting paid more that someone on the 'shop floor'.



A fantastic example, footballers shouldn't be getting paid the ridiculous sums they do (do you really think they should?) while other people at the clum are on mimimum wage. Add to this the fact that it is the supporters who have to pay more to subsidise their ridiulous pay.

Again in football the market is distorted by the Superclubs who have money to burn and pay excessive fees and wages (while still emplying others on minimum wage) forcing other clubs to risk everything (and often lose) in order to keep up. Again another example where trickle down economics is not working.

Club employees do not have to accept those rates of pay, they can find higher paid employment if they wish, it's their choice

As for the footballers wages, how many of the other staff that the club employ can do the role they perform to the same standard? Shouldn't the fact that they are some of the best at what they do get recognised in terms of financial payment and the fact that demand is greater than supply, it forces wages up as clubs try to secure their services

The more specialist and scarce an ability or skill is, the higher the wage is in return. Simple supply and demand. Or using your example of the club, do you suggest that a team that was in the 2nd highest tier in the football pyramid in this country employs players on the same rates as those playing much lower down, maybe only as much as non league players or Sunday league players because otherwise it's unfair that they get more (for being better at something than someone else).

There is absolutely nothing to stop the lower paid club workers from undertaking their own additional training / education and learn new sills or swapping trades to further their own career and employment opportunities, and increase their own earning power.

*If you give a man a fish, and he will be fed for a day
*If you give a man a way to catch his own fish, and he will be able to feed himself for a lifetime
*If you give a man a fish everyday, whats the incentive for him to catch his own fish?
* If you take fish off others that can catch more than 1 fish a day, and give it to someone who does nothing for himself and relies on daily handouts instead, someone who is perfectly capable of catching his own fish and will it just breed resentment and makes them question why they should catch their own fish when they too can just rely on handouts and not put the effort in themselves (why bother? they too can then whinge about those who catch their own possibly having more fish than them, whilst ignoring the time and effort they put in to get it for themselves)

 

[BadFish]

Club employees do not have to accept those rates of pay, they can find higher paid employment if they wish, it's their choice

As for the footballers wages, how many of the other staff that the club employ can do the role they perform to the same standard? Shouldn't the fact that they are some of the best at what they do get recognised in terms of financial payment and the fact that demand is greater than supply, it forces wages up as clubs try to secure their services

The more specialist and scarce an ability or skill is, the higher the wage is in return. Simple supply and demand. Or using your example of the club, do you suggest that a team that was in the 2nd highest tier in the football pyramid in this country employs players on the same rates as those playing much lower down, maybe only as much as non league players or Sunday league players because otherwise it's unfair that they get more (for being better at something than someone else).

There is absolutely nothing to stop the lower paid club workers from undertaking their own additional training / education and learn new sills or swapping trades to further their own career and employment opportunities, and increase their own earning power.

*If you give a man a fish, and he will be fed for a day
*If you give a man a way to catch his own fish, and he will be able to feed himself for a lifetime
*If you give a man a fish everyday, whats the incentive for him to catch his own fish?
* If you take fish off others that can catch more than 1 fish a day, and give it to someone who does nothing for himself and relies on daily handouts instead, someone who is perfectly capable of catching his own fish and will it just breed resentment and makes them question why they should catch their own fish when they too can just rely on handouts and not put the effort in themselves (why bother? they too can then whinge about those who catch their own possibly having more fish than them, whilst ignoring the time and effort they put in to get it for themselves)

Not sure how many times I have to repeat this but here goes, one last time: I am not for one moment suggesting that people should all get paid the same amount (or people should be given free fish). The point I am making is not that there should be no difference in wages for different people it is that currently in many areas of business that gap is too wide.

 

[GT49er]

If you accept and carry on with where you were, that was your choice. What you shouldn't do is then say that those opportunities to improve your situation were never there and not worth the effort to try.

Fatuous comment. Trying doesn't necessarily bring success. For many people, much of the time, it does not.

Great for those who were smart enough, or lucky enough, and are now smug enough, eh?

 

[GT49er]

There is absolutely nothing to stop the lower paid club workers from undertaking their own additional training / education and learn new sills or swapping trades to further their own career and employment opportunities, and increase their own earning power.

Oh shit - why did I never think of retraining as a professional footballer!

You don't half spout a lot of bollox..........

Ever heard words like sanctimonious and patronising, have you? High time you did.