Contact Tracing App

[WATFORD zero]

Thanks for the fair and reasoned response, I totally respect that you've run companies and being software houses kind of joins the dots here!

I agree the issue is political, but the proof of wrongdoing will be technical. If they've released the source code of the app there really should be a smoking gun by now.
If anything the big issue here is the thing Tories are usually accused of - handing big contacts to their mates without a tendering process but everyone's forgotten about that to make Cummings the target.

With regards to functionality, that's what the current testing phase is for Shirley?

Releasing the source code will show what what the app does locally and the data passed to the centre, but I believe the centralised solution that has been built pulling all the data to a central source, as opposed to the de-centralised where the data is only held locally on the device is what people are having an issue with. I think it's the central holding of all data that some people are concerned about with regards to data integrity, security and protection/uses, but this isn't my issue.

I'm not really bothered what technical solution is chosen, but it seems strange to me, not to go with a pre-existing one backed by major suppliers if it does the key requirement of tracking and tracing.

A long time ago, working for a large financial institution, the first thing I did when I arrived was to cut a large expensive project assessing which was the best word processor on the market. I gave them 3 days to assess an early Microsoft Word (this was many years ago!) and told them that if it did everything we required, that was what we were buying.

The decision wasn't technical, it was political as I knew that MS word would be developed and supported for the next 10+ years (30+ years later the decision is proven !). This is the same. We need a proven track and trace we can roll out ASAP. Everything else is just pointless noise.

I believe introducing Faculty and co has done absolutely nothing to achieve this and has, in fact, done the opposite. It was a poor political decision on a number of levels.

 

[Bozza]

Iceland's experience isn't particularly positive...

When Iceland got its first case of covid-19 on February 28, an entire apparatus sprang into action.

The country had already been testing some people at high risk of catching the virus, thanks to DeCode genetics, a local biotech company. Once the arrival of the disease was confirmed, it began rapidly rolling out public testing on a much wider scale. The government, meanwhile, quickly built a team of contact tracers to interview those with a positive diagnosis and track down people they’d been in contact with.

Within a few weeks, Icelanders had another high-tech tool at their disposal, too: a government-backed automated tracing app.

Rakning C-19, which launched in early April, was hailed as a way to “make the tracing of transmissions easier” at the time. It tracks users’ GPS data to compile a record of where they have been, allowing investigators—with permission—to look at whether those with a positive diagnosis are potentially spreading the disease.

And it gained traction quickly: according to MIT Technology Review’s Covid Tracing Tracker, it has the largest penetration rate of all contact trackers in the world, having been downloaded by 38% of Iceland’s population of 364,000.

But despite this early deployment and widespread use, one senior figure in the country’s covid-19 response says the real impact of Rakning C-19 has been small, compared with manual tracing techniques like phone calls.

“The technology is more or less … I wouldn’t say useless,” says Gestur Pálmason, a detective inspector with the Icelandic Police Service who is overseeing contact tracing efforts. “But it’s the integration of the two that gives you results. I would say it [Rakning] has proven useful in a few cases, but it wasn’t a game changer for us.”​

MORE >>> https://www.technologyreview.com/20...&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue newsletter

 

[Mellotron]

Iceland's experience isn't particularly positive...

When Iceland got its first case of covid-19 on February 28, an entire apparatus sprang into action.

The country had already been testing some people at high risk of catching the virus, thanks to DeCode genetics, a local biotech company. Once the arrival of the disease was confirmed, it began rapidly rolling out public testing on a much wider scale. The government, meanwhile, quickly built a team of contact tracers to interview those with a positive diagnosis and track down people they’d been in contact with.

Within a few weeks, Icelanders had another high-tech tool at their disposal, too: a government-backed automated tracing app.

Rakning C-19, which launched in early April, was hailed as a way to “make the tracing of transmissions easier” at the time. It tracks users’ GPS data to compile a record of where they have been, allowing investigators—with permission—to look at whether those with a positive diagnosis are potentially spreading the disease.

And it gained traction quickly: according to MIT Technology Review’s Covid Tracing Tracker, it has the largest penetration rate of all contact trackers in the world, having been downloaded by 38% of Iceland’s population of 364,000.

But despite this early deployment and widespread use, one senior figure in the country’s covid-19 response says the real impact of Rakning C-19 has been small, compared with manual tracing techniques like phone calls.

“The technology is more or less … I wouldn’t say useless,” says Gestur Pálmason, a detective inspector with the Icelandic Police Service who is overseeing contact tracing efforts. “But it’s the integration of the two that gives you results. I would say it [Rakning] has proven useful in a few cases, but it wasn’t a game changer for us.”​

MORE >>> https://www.technologyreview.com/20...&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue newsletter

We'd certainly hope for more than 38%. That article seems to be mostly saying that on it's own, it's not a massive game-changer.

But we (hopefully) know that, it's the combination of many, many measures that will likely reduce a second "wave" significantly.

 

[Blue3]

Now bear with me on this on Friday while driving to walk my dog up on the downs I came across a man in his sixties lying injured on a country lane I stopped and called for an ambulance, the call handling service took the details and then stayed on the line after about ten minutes of this I asked how long until the ambulance will arrive I was told it could be up to two hours as it happens another ten minutes and it turned up.

This got me thinking the governments Covid tracking App might be better accepted by the public if it had a use beyond Covid and thought if I called an Uber their App would keep me informed when I could expect it to arrive now that would be a helpful to somone in the middle of no where on their own apart from an injured person could be updated regarding the ambulance arrival

 

[WATFORD zero]

2 weeks on from the enthusiastic launch of track and trace on the Isle of Wight, I haven't heard anything else about it.

Maybe I've missed it or do you think they are saving up all the good news for another big announcement on the rollout

 

[ManOfSussex]

2 weeks on from the enthusiastic launch of track and trace on the Isle of Wight, I haven't heard anything else about it.

Maybe I've missed it or do you think they are saving up all the good news for another big announcement on the rollout

 

[Billy the Fish]

2 weeks on from the enthusiastic launch of track and trace on the Isle of Wight, I haven't heard anything else about it.

Maybe I've missed it or do you think they are saving up all the good news for another big announcement on the rollout

Bug fixes?

IOW is beta testing by the looks of it.

 

[sully]

They’re recruiting and training the staff to operate it. No idea how the IoW testing is going, though.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Maybe I didn't look hard enough

'NHS tracker applicants are told recruitment has been 'FROZEN' because tracing app isn't ready and could be dumped'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8329185/Track-trace-app-delayed-June-recruitment-frozen.html

Although, to be fair, the daily mail published this within minutes of my post above.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Maybe I didn't look hard enough

'NHS tracker applicants are told recruitment has been 'FROZEN' because tracing app isn't ready and could be dumped'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8329185/Track-trace-app-delayed-June-recruitment-frozen.html

I really hope they do dump the Cummings App. and instead use one he is nowhere near.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Bug fixes?

IOW is beta testing by the looks of it.

They have been beta testing on IOW for two weeks now.

Bug fixes in code are easy to fix, a little harder if the bug is in design, and even harder if they are an inherent part of the design. But the really nasty buggers are the ones in concept

 

[nicko31]

When is our AP being being rolled out or did the Vote Leave consortium fail to come up with the goods?

I presume we are now going to go the Apple / Google route instead of trying to go it alone....

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

When is our AP being being rolled out or did the Vote Leave consortium fail to come up with the goods?

I presume we are now going to go the Apple / Google route instead of trying to go it alone....

I think they are going to do a further trial of the Cummings App V2.0 on the Isle of Wight.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Genuinely, what is going on with this?

Are other countries having the same issues or is it us lagging behind again?

 

[e77]

The Apple iOs update to allow contact tracing became available on my phone yesterday.

 

[nicko31]

I think they are going to do a further trial of the Cummings App V2.0 on the Isle of Wight.

Is there a reason we haven't also been trialing the OTS Apple / Google offer in parallel? That's what most companies look when evaluating technology

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Is there a reason we haven't also been trialing the OTS Apple / Google offer in parallel? That's what most companies look when evaluating technology

The Apple Google App doesn't harvest all the data off the device, which then would allow a profile to be built up of the user.

This would then enable Cummings' Crew to run a Cambridge Analytica type analysis of the profile to micro-target political messaging and nudge the user's "free" will.


So running a trial of the Apple Google App is pointless for Cummings.

 

[nicko31]

The Apple Google App doesn't harvest all the data off the device, which then would allow a profile to be built up of the user.

This would then enable Cummings' Crew to run a Cambridge Analytica type analysis of the profile to micro-target political messaging and nudge the user's "free" will.


So running a trial of the Apple Google App is pointless for Cummings.

Are you serious?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Are you serious?

That's the problem with jumping to the last page of a thread

I think that we are absolutely desperate for a trace & trace system to help us out of this dreadful situation.It has been proven how effective the application in South Korea and Germany was in controlling their Covid outbreak and I definitely want one I can download is quick as possible to help.

So desperate that, instead of using one of the existing de-centralised systems, we award a contract to a small company, Faculty, to create a centralised application from scratch (and to add to the other 7 Government contracts that company has been awarded over the last 18 months).

A company that, purely coincidentally, is owned by the brother, Marc Warner, of a Political Advisor to the Government, Ben Walker.

The same Ben Walker who, purely coincidentally, was the one of the first two Political Advisors ever to sit in on a number of SAGE meetings in it's entire history of over 20 years.

Those two would be, purely coincidentally, Ben Walker and Dominic Cummings, who are not allowed to contribute to SAGE as they are not scientists, and not allowed to convey information from SAGE to ministers as they are Political Advisors and it would be against the rules governing political advisors.

That would be, purely coincidentally, the same Dominic Cummings who then decided it was within his remit to invite Marc Walker, owner of Faculty and brother of Ben, to a SAGE meeting.

And now, the Government have decided to start to look at some of the alternative existing de-centralised Track & Trace solutions instead, to overcome some of the issues with a centralised system ? https://www.ft.com/content/d44beb06-5e3e-434f-a3a0-f806ce06576c

Well it's good to know that this has been well thought through and the solution has been very carefully chosen on purely technical and scientific grounds

In fact, it was a critical pre-requisite to opening up the lockdown and due to be rolled out across the country this week. Johnson said so.

But it's only a small part of track and trace and not essential, as Johnson said more recently (at about the point that it became obvious the rollout date was missed)

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Are you serious?

Yes. Cummings et al. have lost all trustworthiness.