[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[DavidinSouthampton]

Jacob Rees-Mogg is very devout and he's a ****

Jacob Rees—Mogg professes to be a Christian, but he doesn’t espouse many values (if any) that I would recognise as going along with that.
he supports the Rwanda thing, when the leaders of all the major Churches (and other faiths) roundly condemn it as inhumane and totally lacking in compassion - two things which are a necessary part of a Christian Faith.
And there is an oft misquoted biblical text “Money is the root of all evil”. The actual text is “ the LOVE of money is the root of all evil”. it’s not wealth which is the problem, but your attitude to it, how you accumulate it and what you do with it that matters.
And I don’t think Christians (or people of other faiths for that matter) do it for fear of their God(s). They do it because it makes sense. It is “the Golden Rule”, which pervades all major religions and philosophies, the Christian version of which in old fashioned language is “Do unto others as you would have them do to you.” In other words, treat other people as you would like to be treated.

 

[beorhthelm]

Ooof, can no one answer a simple question? My question was whether or not the disciples went out proclaiming that Jesus had risen from the dead.

simple answer is they did not, since they didnt make a record of it, nor did anyone else at the time.

 

[Originunknown]

Ooof, can no one answer a simple question? My question was whether or not the disciples went out proclaiming that Jesus had risen from the dead.

Maybe they did. Maybe "Jesus" was a manufactured biological AI sent back to those years "BC" by a future civilisation who have advanced understanding of string theory and were able to transcend linear time as we know it, then they wrote about it in "the Bible" or other scientific journal of the time.

 

[kuzushi]

Your prophecies are both disputed by scholars. Many think that the suffering servant in Isaiah 53 is the Jewish nation, not Jesus. Some say the translation in Psalm 22 should be “like a lion my hands and feet”.

I'm sure they are, possibly by Jewish scholars with an agenda. And there will be other scholars who agree with what I am saying.
They talk about a man whose hands and feet are pierced, who is pierced for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities, and who is alive again after dying. It says he was assigned a grave with the wicked and the rich. That doesn't really fit with a country, but it does with Jesus as he was crucified with criminals and buried in a rich man's grave.

Also, have does this make sense if it's about the nation of Israel?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
So the nation of Israel was cut off for the transgression of God's people... but Israel is God's people. It's like saying Israel was punished so that Israel could be spared punishment.


Take this bit:
"All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment."
This fits exactly with what we read about happening to Jesus on the cross, stretched out with his arms wide so that all his bones are on display. People staring and literally gloating, and his clothes being divided and lots being cast for his garment. This can be literally matched with Jesus.

 

[kuzushi]

According to Mark’s gospel they did not.

No, it doesn't not say that they did not. It doesn't say that they did, but that is not the same thing as saying that they did not.
Have a look at an actual New Testament scholar, who is an atheist, talking about Jesus:

 

[kuzushi]

Maybe they did. Maybe "Jesus" was a manufactured biological AI sent back to those years "BC" by a future civilisation who have advanced understanding of string theory and were able to transcend linear time as we know it, then they wrote about it in "the Bible" or other scientific journal of the time.

Of course, maybe we are all living in the matrix..
But let's not be silly. Let's look at what scholarship says about these questions.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

 

[Blues Guitarist]

No, it doesn't not say that they did not. It doesn't say that they did, but that is not the same thing as saying that they did not.
Have a look at an actual New Testament scholar, who is an atheist, talking about Jesus:

This is another example of something that, if true, would be really, really important. And the fact that it does not appear in the first gospel to be written, gives some of us pause for thought.

Think about it. Mark (whoever he was) knows that Jesus came back from the dead but didn’t think it worth mentioning in his biography?

 

[Originunknown]

Of course, maybe we are all living in the matrix..
But let's not be silly. Let's look at what scholarship says about these questions.

Silly!? It's a more likely explanation than a body being resurrected days after cells decay, the bacteria starts the irreversible decomposition process in the muscles with the brain being starved of oxygen for only a short time enough to cause severe brain damage.

 

[Triggaaar]

The Jews didn’t expect the messiah to be crucified. He was expected to lead the Jewish people to victory over their oppressors (the Romans). Instead, the Romans killed him.

Well the Old Testament didn't reference the Romans

 

[Triggaaar]

There are Jews that are Christian. I know many. There are even Jews that keep to The Jewish law but accept Jesus as the prophesied messiah in the Torah. It's anti-Semitic to
claim Jews are not Jews because they happen to follow different teaching.

Ah, you're talking about people who are Jews because their mothers are Jews. That's different to someone being of both Jewish faith and Christian faith, which is what I was talking about.

 

[Baldseagull]

Kuzushi, if there was no God, man would have invented one, or more. As you can see, Man has invented very many Gods through history, and you are certain that they are all false, not only that, but the one that you believe to be true, has 3 major religions that worship him, and again, your chosen one is the only correct one, despite being neither the original or most recent.
Your evidence has been, because it said so in the Bible, peoples dreams, The Turin Shroud, and something to do with your Granny. I understand having unshakable faith may seem like the greatest virtue to you and those inside your cult, this is the trick of cults, they warn you that your faith will be tested, probably by satanic forces. The reason for this is that they know that for all their clever script, sooner or later the reality of life will poke through the veil of bullshit.
I am sure you can look at other cults, and marvel at how they can believe such nonsense. This is how it is for me with you.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

I'm sure they are, possibly by Jewish scholars with an agenda.

One minute you’re keen to claim that scholars support your point of view, but as soon as it’s pointed out that some scholars disagree, you question their integrity. That’s not a very “Christian” attitude.

You’ve wheeled out Bart Ehrman to support your point a few times. He’s a top historical scholar whose books I read with interest, but whilst he may agree with some of the historical points you put forward, he strenuously disagrees with your conclusion that Jesus is god. If you value his insights, perhaps you should consider that as well.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ooof, can no one answer a simple question? My question was whether or not the disciples went out proclaiming that Jesus had risen from the dead.

Do dogs go to hell? Do dogs that believe in Jesus go to heaven? How about hamsters? Goldfish? Seagulls?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Jacob Rees—Mogg professes to be a Christian, but he doesn’t espouse many values (if any) that I would recognise as going along with that.
he supports the Rwanda thing, when the leaders of all the major Churches (and other faiths) roundly condemn it as inhumane and totally lacking in compassion - two things which are a necessary part of a Christian Faith.
And there is an oft misquoted biblical text “Money is the root of all evil”. The actual text is “ the LOVE of money is the root of all evil”. it’s not wealth which is the problem, but your attitude to it, how you accumulate it and what you do with it that matters.
And I don’t think Christians (or people of other faiths for that matter) do it for fear of their God(s). They do it because it makes sense. It is “the Golden Rule”, which pervades all major religions and philosophies, the Christian version of which in old fashioned language is “Do unto others as you would have them do to you.” In other words, treat other people as you would like to be treated.

What do you make of the arguments put forward by a prolific poster on this thread? I’ve got a lot of respect for how you’ve expressed your faith on threads like these over the years. Just interest how such an intransigent unerring factual approach to faith strikes you? (completely understand not wanting to get drawn into it)

 

[Bold Seagull]

Do dogs go to hell? Do dogs that believe in Jesus go to heaven? How about hamsters? Goldfish? Seagulls?

My dog will!!




at least he can keep me company…

 

[indy3050]

I know, if you don’t agree don’t open the thread. But….

This is full of shit and you people need to stop. Keep it in your churches/mosques/shithouses.

Don’t brainwash kids, don’t throw it at everybody, basically, f*** off.

I don’t believe in any God but I don’t go on and on and on about it!

Lunacy.

 

[The Clamp]

I know, if you don’t agree don’t open the thread. But….

This is full of shit and you people need to stop. Keep it in your churches/mosques/shithouses.

Don’t brainwash kids, don’t throw it at everybody, basically, f*** off.

I don’t believe in any God but I don’t go on and on and on about it!

Lunacy.

You disagree with people discussing faith and religion outside a place of worship?

I would argue in our modern western society it is easier than ever before for your children to avoid “brainwashing”. Schools are far more accommodating to individual wishes than ever before.

Religious Education these days is far from what I and I suspect you, were taught at school.

These days, Humanities is taught. Classes where pupils learn about all sorts of religions, the good and the bad side to them all etc. it’s very objective.

Parents are the ultimate arbiters of what their kids are exposed to.

If your kids are having anything rammed down their throats, I’d take a look at what you are allowing them to consume.

 

[kuzushi]

We have no proof what so ever, it is hearsay at best, I or you were not there, so neither of us can categorically say he did.
You can believe he did, I do not know, and neither do you for SURE.

In general, nothing in life, even in science, can be proven, but we can have evidence, and the Lord's supper aka Holy Communion is evidence pointing to the fact that Jesus knew that he was about to die, since he instituted the practice of breaking bread and wine the evening before his crucifixion, saying "this is my body, broken for you", and "this is my blood of the New Covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." The fact is that this goes right back to the start of Christianity. It was not added later, nor did it creep in over time. So it appears Jesus instituted it the evening before he was crucified, in which case he knew he was about to die.

 

[kuzushi]

Ooof......

Can you not understand - NO ONE CAN FECKIN PROVE IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER NOT YOU, NOT SOME SCRIPTURES RE WRITTEN COUNTLESS TIMES.

I'm not saying it can be proven. Can you prove where you were born? No, you can't. But we can look at the evidence, which is what scholars do, and the likes of Bart Ehrman and other scholars are pretty sure about quite a few things.