[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[kuzushi]

As I said in my previous post it is not a fair method of choosing. Much easier for some and harder for other to choose the 'right' religion to follow.

Lucky it is all a load of tosh and we don't really have to worry about it.

You're spending a lot of time debating it if you think it's a load of tosh.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[kuzushi]

I think that one thing is certain, if he exists he is definately not fair or just!

You only have to look at the world to see that the god described by Christianity, a god of fairness and love cannot exist.

If he did the world would be fair.

Was it fair that Jesus was crucified?

 

[BadFish]

You're spending a lot of time debating it if you think it's a load of tosh.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I don't believe a word of it though, I just find it interesting that people do.

The way people's brains work is fascinating to me.

 

[BadFish]

Was it fair that Jesus was crucified?

No, his dad was in charge of that job.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Well, this thread seems destined to go the same way as every other thread on religion on NSC has gone. 23 pages and some posters (on both sides of the fence) still pushing their agendas regardless. It will eventually fizzle out due to boredom. It will be a relief to get back to more weighty and important topics like fixtures and farts.

 

[BadFish]

So no human who died before the birth of Jesus was able to go to heaven. And all the humans on the other side of the world, who hadn't yet heard of Jesus, were also ineligible. God really is a twat isn't he.

Interesting point this. The indigenous folk here in Australia lived for 40 or 50,000 years before they had even heard of Jesus (This knowledge arriving did them no favours either). All those hundreds of thousands of people doomed to hell because they didn't know Jesus. They never had a chance to.

Hardly a fair shake of the sauce bottle as they say over here.

 

[kuzushi]

A couple of things here: Although many respect him only a small number of religions accept him as the son of god. Therefore most do not accept him as the way to get to heaven.

That's true.
Islam respects him as a prophet, but rejects the idea that he died for our sins.

If my understanding of your somewhat cloudy response to Psychobilly's question is correct, only those who believe that Jesus is the son of god are getting into heaven?

Only those who follow Jesus, yes.

If this is the case then my point stands, it is far harder for some people to get into heaven than others. And the reason it is harder is because of the cards dealt to those people by god.

I think the percentage of true Christians is probably close in all countries, with some variation. Probably about 10%. For example, in Egypt, which is meant to be a Christian country, it's estimated that about 10% are Christians. In China, where atheism is the state position, there are about 100 million Christians, which is about 10%. In the UK, the number of true believers is probably even less than 10%.

What’s behind Boom of Christianity in China?

The China Historical Christian Database tracks four centuries of Christian history in China.

www.bu.edu

I am unsure of your point here, possibly you are suggesting that respect for Jesus and his actions is enough for a ticket to heaven. I love this idea and fully endorse this as a fair and just method of deciding if you are going up or down in the afterlife. Add to this judgement a bit about how people have lived their lives and I am fully behind it.

It's a start. Jesus said that we will have to give account for every idle word.
In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads: 36:But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37:For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

To ensure my understanding is correct please answer these questions in one sentence (so as not to confuse the matter):
- The followers of which religion are going to heaven?
- If the answer to this is Christians (as I suspect), are all denominations of Christianity going to heaven or is it just one of them?

The followers of Jesus are the ones who are going to heaven.
The denomination doesn't matter, as long as you are a true follower of Jesus.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned

 

[BadFish]

That's true.
Islam respects him as a prophet, but rejects the idea that he died for our sins.


Only those who follow Jesus, yes.


I think the percentage of true Christians is probably close in all countries, with some variation. Probably about 10%. For example, in Egypt, which is meant to be a Christian country, it's estimated that about 10% are Christians. In China, where atheism is the state position, there are about 100 million Christians, which is about 10%. In the UK, the number of true believers is probably even less than 10%.

What’s behind Boom of Christianity in China?

The China Historical Christian Database tracks four centuries of Christian history in China.

www.bu.edu

It's a start. Jesus said that we will have to give account for every idle word.
In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads: 36:But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37:For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.


The followers of Jesus are the ones who are going to heaven.
The denomination doesn't matter, as long as you are a true follower of Jesus.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned

A very unjust and skewed system wouldn't you say?

 

[kuzushi]

Interesting point this. The indigenous folk here in Australia lived for 40 or 50,000 years before they had even heard of Jesus (This knowledge arriving did them no favours either). All those hundreds of thousands of people doomed to hell because they didn't know Jesus. They never had a chance to.

Hardly a fair shake of the sauce bottle as they say over here.

It's going to be worse for you than it is for them in that case. They never heard about Jesus. You have.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think God is fair,

is a child born with a disease fair? i suppose you'll say thats to test the parents for some reason, sounds pretty unfair to punish both the parents and child.

 

[kuzushi]

A very unjust and skewed system wouldn't you say?

You might not have seen the post where I said that the percentage of those who truly follow Jesus and are reconciled with God is probably a lot more similar in many countries that you might assume. I'd say 10% in the UK, same in muslim Egypt. Same in China.

 

[kuzushi]

is a child born with a disease fair? i suppose you'll say thats to test the parents for some reason, sounds pretty unfair to punish both the parents and child.

No, you don't always get justice or fairness in this messed up world. But ultimately I think God will deliver justice.

 

[BadFish]

You might not have seen the post where I said that the percentage of those who truly follow Jesus and are reconciled with God is probably a lot more similar in many countries that you might assume. I'd say 10% in the UK, same in muslim Egypt. Same in China.

So you are saying that finding Jesus is as easy for Taruiq who grows up in a fundamnetal family of muslims in Saudi arabia as it is for Marco who grows up in a catcholic family in Italy?

All Marco has to do is follow his family and live his life as expected. Tariq has to at some point reject everything he knows and face the possibility that he will be banished from the family and persecuted by his community.

. . . to suggest that this is fair and just is madness.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

It's going to be worse for you than it is for them in that case. They never heard about Jesus. You have.

Here is the true Christian reply, dropping your guard, damn them, damn you, damn everyone who does not believe....
I am right, your wrong, won't listen to you, your damned, listen to me, listen to me, I am right, I am right, your wrong....

There can be no debate on any level with you, your not here to listen, your hear to win arguments and prove a point Jesus is the saviour.
In many ways it is like arguing or having a discussion with a hard line Nazi, you have an agenda.

This is why I hate most religions.

 

[BadFish]

It's going to be worse for you than it is for them in that case. They never heard about Jesus. You have.

Why should it be worse for me though. If your god is all-powerful then he has blessed me with my questioning brain (and I thank him for it). Yet come judgement day he is going to reward you and punish me for using the brains that he has given to both of us.

You said in your earlier post that he has instilled a desire to know him in some of the people he created. Yet he will punish those he hasn't given this gift to. It's either illogical or vindictive.

 

[beorhthelm]

No, you don't always get justice or fairness in this messed up world. But ultimately I think God will deliver justice.

if God created the world, he caused the lack of justice and fairness. it a warped and blind mind that cant see these fundemental contradictions.

 

[BadFish]

Here is the true Christian reply, dropping your guard, damn them, damn you, damn everyone who does not believe....
I am right, your wrong, won't listen to you, your damned, listen to me, listen to me, I am right, I am right, your wrong....

There can be no debate on any level with you, your not here to listen, your hear to win arguments and prove a point Jesus is the saviour.
In many ways it is like arguing or having a discussion with a hard line Nazi, you have an agenda.

This is why I hate most religions.

It really comes down to "I am right because it says so in the Christian instruction manual"

 

[kuzushi]

Here is the true Christian reply, dropping your guard, damn them, damn you, damn everyone who does not believe....
I am right, your wrong, won't listen to you, your damned, listen to me, listen to me, I am right, I am right, your wrong....

There can be no debate on any level with you, your not here to listen, your hear to win arguments and prove a point Jesus is the saviour.
In many ways it is like arguing or having a discussion with a hard line Nazi, you have an agenda.

This is why I hate most religions.

I have no need to be here. I'm not trying to be "right", but I genuinely do believe that your soul is in danger. I'm listening to what everyone says, and putting my opinion out there. In fact it's not my opinion, it's what the Bible says. If you are so convinced it's all a load of rubbish, why are you getting so worried and upset? I'd have thought you'd be more chill about it.

 

[BadFish]

I have no need to be here. I'm not trying to be "right", but I genuinely do believe that your soul is in danger. I'm listening to what everyone says, and putting my opinion out there. In fact it's not my opinion, it's what the Bible says. If you are so convinced it's all a load of rubbish, why are you getting so worried and upset? I'd have thought you'd be more chill about it.

Bingo.

Why did you choose the bible and not the Qua'arn or the Torah?

Presumably, you have spent an equal amount of time studying each before you made you decision?

If we are honest we are probably here because we fear that you are in danger my friend. Free yourself and look outside a dusty old book.

 

[kuzushi]

if God created the world, he caused the lack of justice and fairness. it a warped and blind mind that cant see these fundemental contradictions.

I believe what you are referring to is called theodicy.
According to the Bible, when God made the world everything was good. He gave us free will, and now we are living with the consequences of our free will. Sin has affected everything. Most suffering in the world today is caused by people. There is more than enough food to feed everyone, but people are starving. Is that God's fault or ours? Hundreds of thousands have died in the Ukraine. Who's fault is that?