[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
51,413
Faversham
Everyone on here believes in good and evil, but who/what set the standard? And nobody on here is perfect, but why not?
I don't believe in good and evil. I recognize jeopardy and safety, friendship and hostility, cruelty and kindness. Etc.

The standard is whatever we wish it to be.

If you mean by not perfect as not always self sacrificing, and indeed not necessarily vigorously proactive, on the streets every day seeking out the poor and downtrodden and offering succour, I think a tiny minority are like this. A life of devotion to others. But that is not perfection in the eyes of most, and it isn't even attractive to most of us.

Consider this (I give several examples to cater of orientation):

Mother Theresa or Amanda Donohoe?
Rupert Everett or Peter Tatchell?
Lady Diana or Lady Gaga?
Kier Starmer or Boris Johnson?

One person's perfect may be another person's hell.

So the reason why we have not all evolved to be perfect (even if this were definable) is because selfishness, ruthlessness, strength and cunning, and indeed the ability to be amusing, are admired, are influential and are desirable, to different degrees to different people.

We are a homogenous lot.

And yet we are also very similar, which is how it is so common for people to adopt children, even of different races (and indeed couple up with people who may seem superficially very different). There is even a growing idea that although we may not breed ourselves, we can influence the gene pool through our work.

Not all of us want to achieve immortality, and not all that do wish to do so in the way Woody Allen claimed he wished to do so, but spreading our seed is not always the best way to serve the species, or even necessarily ourselves.
 






Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,287
Goldstone
I don't know any Christians who persecute Jews. Do you?

Well you'll be pleased to hear that the persecution of Jews is now illegal in this country, so no, the Christians that I know do not persecute them. However, you will no doubt be shocked to learn that many Christians have persecuted Jews a huge amount over the last 2,000 years. If you want to look into it, I suggest you sit down, because it really is quite awful.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,287
Goldstone
You can't go anywhere that does not exist.
This is the thing about religions, they nearly all claim to be the one true salvation, you can't all be correct.

Actually, only one can be correct. There are thousands of religions, and every single one of them thinks the others are wrong. Atheists agree with each religion about all of the other religions.


Where will I go then, because I do not believe in your Christian God.

You'll go to the same place he goes - nowhere.
 








Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,287
Goldstone
Interestingly, the old polytheistic religions (Roman, Greek etc.) apparently used to borrow quite freely from each other.
Well the current main religions borrow plenty - Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all believe in the same god.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
51,413
Faversham
Of course.

The Catholic Church though, is run by some very sick people.
That's an interesting point. A massive global corporation that began at a time when torture was not just legal but almost compulsory is going to struggle to reform itself in the modern era. In the end, it's sole purpose is to perpetuate itself, hence all the cover ups in recent times, and openness and change will come only if it is deemed the best way forward. For the survival of the church.
 






Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,287
Goldstone
Well yes, but my point was that they wouldn't generally have viewed followers of other gods as "wrong" in the same way as Christians, Muslims or Jews might do.

Although they too would share some beliefs, I'd think the at some point they disagree on some quite fundamental points? But I concede that my Greek and Roman theology ain't great.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,287
Goldstone
The rod is a measuring stick for setting out boundaries. Ezekiel measured out the Temple in Jerusalem with a rod.
It isn’t a beating stick, but some men with bullying tendencies have deliberately used that interpretation.

Yeah that's hogwash and a modern re-imagining of the Old Testament. In ancient times the discipline of children was extremely harsh. "Under Roman law, fathers had the right to inflict horrendous punishments on their children – from beating and starving them to killing them, although history shows us that few dads resorted to the latter."

They didn't discipline them by getting out a measuring rod.
 




Sid and the Sharknados

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Sep 4, 2022
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Although they too would share some beliefs, I'd think the at some point they disagree on some quite fundamental points? But I concede that my Greek and Roman theology ain't great.
It's a very different world view, most people back then might actively worship whichever god or gods were most relevant to them, but that didn't imply they didn't believe the others existed.
If you accept that there's lots of gods, and you don't view them as intrinsically "good" or "benelovent", there's not much reason to get into a fight with anybody else over which specific gods they worship. People did think the Jews (and later, Christians) were weird, because they were just about the only people who insisted that their god was the only one and that everybody else was wrong.
Of course, this didn't do anything to make the Romans or Greeks less violent, they just found other reasons to justify fighting and othering people.
 


DJ NOBO

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2004
6,438
Wiltshire
I married a Christian, became a born again and became part of a Christian cult.
I alienated myself from all my family and friends as they were the devil , apparently.
The church leaders were obsessed with converting (usually vulnerable) people which they attempted with the enthusiasm and ruthlessness of teenage lads going out on the pull. Once these converts submitted the leaders dropped them and moved on.
They were also very keen on getting a share of my income.
Meanwhile my devout goody two shoes (ex) wife cheated on me before and after we got married. She first admitted she cheated (after insisting she hadn’t) on the night before we got married . She later said her timing was to get it off her conscience when she judged it was too late for me to back out.
I can confirm Christians are not all nice people.
And if any of your friends/family get involved with a fishy religious organisation don’t underestimate it. They are very clever when they have their teeth into you. And they’ll try and take everything.
 


birthofanorange

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 31, 2011
6,011
David Gilmour's armpit
I married a Christian, became a born again and became part of a Christian cult.
I alienated myself from all my family and friends as they were the devil , apparently.
The church leaders were obsessed with converting (usually vulnerable) people which they attempted with the enthusiasm and ruthlessness of teenage lads going out on the pull. Once these converts submitted the leaders dropped them and moved on.
They were also very keen on getting a share of my income.
Meanwhile my devout goody two shoes (ex) wife cheated on me before and after we got married. She first admitted she cheated (after insisting she hadn’t) on the night before we got married . She later said her timing was to get it off her conscience when she judged it was too late for me to back out.
I can confirm Christians are not all nice people.
And if any of your friends/family get involved with a fishy religious organisation don’t underestimate it. They are very clever when they have their teeth into you. And they’ll try and take everything.
Sounds bloody awful.
I have no beef with anyone who chooses to 'follow' a religious/godly path, as long as they don't try to get me on board.
I say 'no beef', but it may be telling that I have never chosen to have close friends who are unduly (imho) religious, and none of my various partners in life have ever been church-goers/similar.
It just doesn't sit well with me, overall.
 




indy3050

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2011
1,335
Sounds bloody awful.
I have no beef with anyone who chooses to 'follow' a religious/godly path, as long as they don't try to get me on board.
I say 'no beef', but it may be telling that I have never chosen to have close friends who are unduly (imho) religious, and none of my various partners in life have ever been church-goers/similar.
It just doesn't sit well with me, overall.
Same. Not for me.
 






DJ NOBO

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2004
6,438
Wiltshire
Sounds bloody awful.
I have no beef with anyone who chooses to 'follow' a religious/godly path, as long as they don't try to get me on board.
I say 'no beef', but it may be telling that I have never chosen to have close friends who are unduly (imho) religious, and none of my various partners in life have ever been church-goers/similar.
It just doesn't sit well with me, overall.
Thing is No-one thinks they’d get sucked into something like that until they do.
I was impressionable, naive, young and maybe a bit lonely and they were in. Chuck in a nice pair of tits and within months I was happy to give up my money, identity and family.
I still shudder when I think of the church services. Crazy stuff with people “speaking in tongues“, renouncing the devil and worst of all they went on for 3.5 hours.
 




birthofanorange

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 31, 2011
6,011
David Gilmour's armpit
Thing is No-one thinks they’d get sucked into something like that until they do.
I was impressionable, naive and maybe a bit lonely and they were in. Chuck in a nice pair of tits and within months I was happy to give up my money, identity and family.
Woah there....you didn't mention tits before. :unsure:
 




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