Chilcot report
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symyjym
Banned
It's interesting that the usual hard line Blair apologists have steered well away from this thread.
- Jan 3, 2012
- 16,720
No it doesn't. Given the concept of free will, I think God is sitting in the clouds somewhere holding his/her head in his/her hands and thinking "What the feck are they playing at!"
spring hall convert
Well-known member
Exactly.
I used to think Blair was a great PM until he sycophantically did as he was told by GWB and just ignored British democracy in doing so. Now whenever I see him on television, I just want someone to punch him in the face, and I'd probably shed no tears if some nut-job killed him.
symyjym
Banned
Disagree. The concept of free will is an afterthought excuse in mans design of God when evil deeds are done. He could give us free will without giving us evil free will as well, there is a massive difference.
Don’t forget, he designed us and any human flaws can be directly attributed to him. If there was a God he could have programmed us to not cause any harm to each other.
This great almighty, invisible and all knowing thing does not make any rational sense.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,432
free will doesn't adequately explain how a few acting on their free will might negatively impact millions of others. nor does free will account for the ill and evil in the world that isn't caused by man. it can only cover incidents of personal interactions, so its a poor excuse.
symyjym
Banned
Yep, this free will excuse is used to try and throw religious questioners off with a fanciful paradox, but it doesn't work when a little more thought is invested.
In fact was Germanwings Flight 9525 God's will or Andreas Lubitz's free will? It gets confusing this God thing.
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- Jan 3, 2012
- 16,720
If he gave us free will without giving us evil free will as well, it wouldn't be free will.
Isn't this more a question of why is there nastiness, evil or whatever in the world? To which I don't have an answer except "sorry, but there is."
And the point about rational sense? That's why this subject area is "faith", I guess.
symyjym
Banned
If there was a God he could give us free will without causing others harm. You cannot tell me that causing harm is just a byproduct of free will.
I cannot believe in a God who plans an apocalyptic end to the world, and who sentences non believers to burn in hell for eternity.
You have to admit it sounds fanciful.
- Jan 3, 2012
- 16,720
Yes, God could have given us free will but limiting it to "nice" free will, and not all nastiness in the world is caused by the human race - volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis etc etc. People have written copious books about such things. We live in an imperfect world, and humankind contributes to that imperfection.
And I don't believe in a God who plans an apocalyptic end to the world, and who sentences non believers to burn in hell for eternity. Having gone through the book or Revelation last year with a small group (I was going to say "studied", but that would be overstating it), it is apocalyptic writing from someone who was probably out of his mind on hallucinatory drugs and would make a good film a la Harry Potter.
symyjym
Banned
People of faith would say that volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis and every other natural disaster etc is God's will.
Yep, the book or Revelation would make a good movie, but there are many Christians and Muslims who believe that we are going through the End of Days now and that Syria is where the holy books say it starts. Many see what is happening in Syria as proof of this prophecy and will it on.
The problem is that it is a self fulfilled prophecy and the fighters who have gone to Syria have been recruited on the basis that they have been sold it as the final Battle. They really do believe that they are doing Allah's work, just like Bush claimed he is doing God's work.
Bush and Blair are evil Christians so how do Christians reconcile the terror to Iraqi's that they unleashed? Was this free will or God's will? When it suited them they undermined basic Christian values.
This surprised me: John Prescott, who was deputy prime minister when Britain went to war with Iraq in 2003, says the invasion by UK and US forces was "illegal".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36756878
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-reveals-guilt-illegal-8387319
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36756878
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-reveals-guilt-illegal-8387319
The man is an idiot
Well, he always takes his time to get to the right conclusion!
But wouldn't this also make him a war criminal?
The Chilcot report did not conclude that the war was 'illegal' so what makes Prescott think he can declare it so? How can it possibly take 7 years (plus the years beforehand) to work out whether or not something is or is not legal, in any case? It was a war FFS, not some filligree nuanced miasma of complexity, constructed by Dostoyevski
This is like Prescott saying 'I now realise that the goldfish I have been feeding every day has in fact been dead for years'. If it is so not obvious that something is illegal, in any case, how can anyone be found guilty? Its all claptrap in my view, and Prescott is a fool. Are you perchance saying that becuase you think the war was illegal then Prescott isn't a fool? 
Ooh, I wouldn't say that Prescott isn't a fool! (He caused us huge problems, but we might not have got Falmer without him.)
I do believe the war was illegal, though it wasn't Chilcot's job to judge.
I'm just just surprised that Prescott would stick his head up, rather than letting Blair take all the flack. Yes, he should have stood up at the time, so carries a lot of guilt.
I do believe the war was illegal, though it wasn't Chilcot's job to judge.
I'm just just surprised that Prescott would stick his head up, rather than letting Blair take all the flack. Yes, he should have stood up at the time, so carries a lot of guilt.
AmexRuislip
Trainee Spy 🕵️♂️
John Prescott bringing out a new book, in his career with Tony Blair.
Entitled...'Lies and Pies'
Entitled...'Lies and Pies'