Capital punishment !

[Phat Baz 68]

I think that argument just about shoots yourself in the foot. Lets kill everyone and who gives a damn if a few innocents get caught up in the crossfire, just collateral damage. Well nobody really other than their friends and family. Maybe one day Phat Baz might just be in the wrong place at the wrong time with no alibi and ends up in the firing line!

Not what im saying at all i was waiting for someone to pick up on that point.

"Lets kill everyone and who gives a damn if a few innocents get caught up in the crossfire, just collateral damage"

Hmm i cant see where i have put that anywhere or even hinted at it i think that is just you trying to put words in my mouth !!

Of course miscarriages are wrong but there is very very few these days, and yes one is too many but i still think people would say something totally different if it was one of their kids or family that were murdered.
The word NIMBY springs to mind.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

My question to you is if it was one of your relatives/ children (and i really hope that never happens) what would you want done then ?
Put yourself in their shoes for a few minutes and think about it !!

One of my cousins was shot and killed in Northern Ireland in 1972. Capital punishment for the perpetrator(s) has never been discussed by anyone in the family to my knowledge; as others have said, it's just revenge not justice, so what would be the point? A pretty evil motivation too imo.

 

[Gary Leeds]

Put them all in a high security prison with and none of the comforts they currently get, 4 to a cell , a bucket in the corner and 30 minutes per day of yard privilages, the other 23 hours 30 minutes are spent in the locked cell. They forgo all human rights the moment they commit the crime.

The money saved by taking away all the privilages will more than pay for the compo for false imprisonment.

Oh and 10 years means 10 years, not 5 with good behaviour or even 3 and a bracelet fitted to go home. equally life means life.

Im also of the view we should operate a 3 strike system, the 3rd offence regardless of what it was or the 2 before it (driving with no insurance, stealing, assault etc) is a minimum of 10 years with no comforts. We are way too soft on all criminals in this country.

 

[W.C.]

However you feel about the moral implications, bring back capital punishment, innocent people will be murdered by the state from time to time.

 

[The Large One]

Of course miscarriages are wrong but there is very very few these days, and yes one is too many but i still think people would say something totally different if it was one of their kids or family that were murdered.
The word NIMBY springs to mind.

You're presuming to know what the family of a murder victim would think, and are basing an entire argument on that.

 

[Racek]

However you feel about the moral implications, bring back capital punishment, innocent people will be murdered by the state from time to time.

Thank you. Thats what I wanted to say.

 

[Willy Dangle]

It is a difficult one as I watched a programme recently where a serial offender stated on camera that prison is better for them as they get looked after and when outside they dont get looked after.

This made my blood boil as being an adult means looking after yourself. However as the programme went on and I learned more about the mis guided childhood it was easy to see how they were where they were and I or you would probably not be any different.

The system is wrong for those that get trapped in it. But for some clear cut horendous crimes I think there is only one way, revenge not punishment is one argument but I also consider the cost of looking after these people. Bring back the black hankey or whatever it was called.

 

[GreersElbow]

Of course miscarriages are wrong but there is very very few these days, and yes one is too many but i still think people would say something totally different if it was one of their kids or family that were murdered.
The word NIMBY springs to mind.

That argument doesn't work for a rational person...

It is a difficult one as I watched a programme recently where a serial offender stated on camera that prison is better for them as they get looked after and when outside they dont get looked after.

This made my blood boil as being an adult means looking after yourself. However as the programme went on and I learned more about the mis guided childhood it was easy to see how they were where they were and I or you would probably not be any different.

The system is wrong for those that get trapped in it. But for some clear cut horendous crimes I think there is only one way, revenge not punishment is one argument but I also consider the cost of looking after these people. Bring back the black hankey or whatever it was called.

I completely see where you're coming from, the programme was "The Prisoner" - But the costs are very high due to the fact they do have luxuries, but removal of these luxuries are then taken to court which is then overturned by the ECHR due to 'human rights'. Which says a lot about our constitution (or lack of written for that matter).

I also think the problem with crime extends right down to family life (I'm sorry if this sounds Tory, I re-assure, you I'm not). A broken family can lead to a troublesome life, a life which breaks down into desperation and looking for acceptance. That can be seen within gang communities, gangs replace the family and then comes the drugs, drinking and violence. As they have no realistic alternatives to getting a buzz, this argument was looked at during the London riots in 2011. It rings true, to some extent. When governments are cutting social care, and youth centres, they have no where to go.

As much as I dislike him, Plan B in his song 'Ill manors' is spot on
"Don’t bloody give me that
I’ll lose my temper
Who closed down the community centre?
I kill time there used to be a member
What will I do now until September?
School’s out, rules out, get your bloody tools out
London’s burning, I predict a riot
Fall in fall out"

Essentially, the youth of today fall into a world of self fulfilling prophecy, a glass ceiling with little to do and no aspiration. Crime is related to socio-economic background, and to prevent it? Well, that's the ideological argument, how?

 

[happypig]

I'm not in favour of killing people for any reason, but I do think that prison sentences should be less comfortable.

Something a lot of people don't know is that for lesser offences (such as common assault) the criminal will serve very little time; the maximum sentence is 6 months but for a "timely guilty plea", ie at the first appearance, the defendant must be given a one third reduction, so 4 months then, except that there is an automatic release scheme so they are released at the halfway stage, so 2 months.
It's my belief that if someone is sentenced to a term of imprisonment, then they know they will serve all of it.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

When I was young - a long time ago - I was in favour, but not any more. Apart from any moral considerations I simply don't believe it works.

Capital punishment isn't a deterrent. Many murders are committed in a fit if range and possible execution wouldn't be a deterrent for these people.

And it wouldn't be a deterrent for cold blooded murder either (for want of a better expression) simply because the murderer does not seriously expect to be caught. They expect or at least hope to get away with it.

In order to protect society? Most murderers are unlikely to be a danger to society and those that are can be kept in prison.

Rehabilitation of offender? A bit difficult to achieve, given the circumstances.

In my opinion the only possible justification could be as a punishment. But in this 21st century society ought to be able to come up with a better form of punishment than simply killing an offender.

I'm sure I would feel different if it was someone close to me who was murdered but society cannot and should not use capital punishment just to get revenge for the victim's loved ones.

But the argument above applies here as well; for punishment to be a deterrent the offender needs to believe that he or she is likely to be caught, and I very much doubt that many of them do.

I accept that the current system has lots of flaws - maybe life should mean life, maybe murderers should serve longer before being released, maybe there should be more supervision after release, there's a debate to be had on all of these points.

But the way to deal with it is to repair or redesign the system. Not bringing back hanging.

 

[User removed 4]

Capital punishment is not justice, it is revenge. It is NOT a deterrent, as murder in states with capital punishment still happen.

Can you just show me some conclusive evidence how capital punishment ISN'T a deterrent ? Shouldn't be too hard considering how vehement you seem to be , just some figures quantifying how many people capital punishment HAS deterred as against those it hasn't in states that retain it , you'll probably need to give some breakdown on socio-economic conditions if you attempt to use figures in a has/has not debate.

 

[Buzzer]

I'm not in favour of capital punishment but then I see people feeding pigeons and I think....hang 'em high. And people who put their feet up on the seats on trains. Electrocution. Gross misuse of the English language - let's face it, we don't need these types. Youths who seem unable to pull their trousers up - death by wedgie. I think that's fair enough. And parents who let their children 'support' Man United - bullet to the head and the children re-housed with normal decent folk. The kind who don't leave teabags in the sink.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Put them all in a high security prison with and none of the comforts they currently get, 4 to a cell , a bucket in the corner and 30 minutes per day of yard privilages, the other 23 hours 30 minutes are spent in the locked cell. They forgo all human rights the moment they commit the crime.

The money saved by taking away all the privilages will more than pay for the compo for false imprisonment.

Oh and 10 years means 10 years, not 5 with good behaviour or even 3 and a bracelet fitted to go home. equally life means life.

Im also of the view we should operate a 3 strike system, the 3rd offence regardless of what it was or the 2 before it (driving with no insurance, stealing, assault etc) is a minimum of 10 years with no comforts. We are way too soft on all criminals in this country.

I agree we seem to be way too soft, but the 3 strikes (I gather) doesn't work in the US - you have a guy in jail for life for stealing 3 video cassettes. Ok, his first 2 crimes must have been quite bad, but even so ....

 

[User removed 4]

I agree we seem to be way too soft, but the 3 strikes (I gather) doesn't work in the US - you have a guy in jail for life for stealing 3 video cassettes. Ok, his first 2 crimes must have been quite bad, but even so ....

But long jail sentences DO work , look at Nelson Mandela, banged up for 27 years, got out, he hasn't reoffended....

 

[The Spanish]

its a bit like the stat about 90-odd % of air crash survivors watched the safety demo. and what percentage of the dead did?

 

[Buzzer]

But long jail sentences DO work , look at Nelson Mandela, banged up for 27 years, got out, he hasn't reoffended....

They should have done more to rehabilitate him, I feel. Just take a look at the shirts he wears. They may have been the hottest threads when he got sent down in 1964 but a man of his age shouldn't be out in public wearing those crimes against fashion.

 

[Buzzer]

I reckon he shops at that menswear shop in St James Street where you can get cow print Nehru suits. It's called Passport. Your passport to looking a tw@t.

 

[User removed 4]

They should have done more to rehabilitate him, I feel. Just take a look at the shirts he wears. They may have been the hottest threads when he got sent down in 1964 but a man of his age shouldn't be out in public wearing those crimes against fashion.

I would violate his parole for his bad clobber without a doubt.

 

[drew]

Can you just show me some conclusive evidence how capital punishment ISN'T a deterrent ? Shouldn't be too hard considering how vehement you seem to be , just some figures quantifying how many people capital punishment HAS deterred as against those it hasn't in states that retain it , you'll probably need to give some breakdown on socio-economic conditions if you attempt to use figures in a has/has not debate.

You can of course never measure to that level of conclusiveness that something acts as a deterrent as you can't ever know whether someone may have committed a crime had it not been for the threat of that punishment. You can only go by the statistics and in the case of capital punishment, that would probably be by comparing the homicide rate in this country with one where they do have capital punishment, for example the US!

When I was young, ie late teens, I thought there should be capital punishment but the intervening years have proved on far too many occasions that the wrong person has been convicted. The justice system makes mistakes although I would still suggest it is probably one of the more reliable in the world and in the end, it doesn't rely on the intelligence of the judiciary to determine if you are guilty but of 12 of your peers. We all saw in the Vicky Price case that you don't always get an intelligent jury. Would you like a jury like that to decide your fate when you knew you were innocent?

 

[Buzzer]

All those against the death penalty take a look at this suit. There's only two types of bloke who would wear this suit - the sado-psycho eldest son of Saddam Hussein or a scouser at a wedding. Both are blights on civilised society. They won't be missed.