Bus lanes

[The Large One]

In London part of the council tax is used to subsidise the public transport. Why is that in London only and not other towns/ cities? I wouldnt mind paying an extra bit in council tax per month if it meant cheaper travel.

Transport for London is funded completely differently.

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded?intcmp=2685

Ref the Bus charges there is a massive disconnect in price vs distance traveled. Example being a colleague of mine sometimes gets the bus into work from Eastbourne [to Brighton] at a cost of £5.20 - this is good value. - For myself getting a bus in from Bevendean to the city centre is £4.70, very expensive.

*the above prices assumes tickets purchased from driver. - can be slightly lower with a key card.

That £4.70 ticket will get you back again, and anywhere else you wish to go either on a whim or through necessity, but I understand your point.

 

[surrey jim]

Transport for London is funded completely differently.

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded?intcmp=2685



That £4.70 ticket will get you back again, and anywhere else you wish to go either on a whim or through necessity, but I understand your point.

Should add the £5.20 is a return fare aswell. Thanks for the reply. Was not aware of the set up of TFL.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Improving the area for bus, cycle and general safety is a 'frivolous use of money'? How do you know the materials aren't going to be re-used? Have you checked with the contractors?

If you're talking about the old decrepit paving and tarmac that there was along Edward Street and Eastern Road (which is also being done), you'll know it certainly needed doing.

Besides, you were arguing the opposite case in your earlier post. You were saying that London Road needed improving. Wouldn't that be the same frivolous use of money - because the scenarios are very similar?

Good grief, you are purposely being argumentative aren't you ?

I've not stated at all in this thread that bus and cycle lanes are a frivolous use of money. I was talking about the unnecessary works that have taken place as part of adding them.

The pavement on the north side of Edward Street from just east of Amex up to the top of the hill was in a perfect paved condition prior to these works. I know because I used to walk it regularly. They haven't moved the kerb stones so there is no need to replace the paving slabs. They're going to struggle to re-use the dug up paving stones given I watched them break many of them while digging them up.

Add in the utterly over the top block paving to mark the joining of side roads to the scheme which could easily have been marked in a different colour tarmac or by using road marks and there has been a frivolous use of money. Of course it's not council money ( well a majority of it anyway ) so they don't care just as long the government money covers the cost and it's not the designers money so there is little incentive to save money.

As for London Road, I was talking about removing clutter rather than big engineering works but of course you knew that really.

 

[brighton bluenose]

Liverpool has abandoned it's bus lanes, because there was too much pollution from congestion.

Correction - Liverpool suspended bus lanes in October last year to review whether this would ease congestion generally so it will be interesting to see the results of any report which must be due in the near future.

 

[Brovion]

Just as a general comment, for the first time in over twenty years I had to drive in Brighton this morning, I had to get from Fiveways to Peacehaven via Saltdean. (Fiveways is poorly served by buses so it was simply not feasible to do the journey by bus otherwise I'd still be out there). Bloody hell. Do people really do that journey every day? If those queues haven't deterred people from driving then nothing will.

My wife, a district nurse who has to drive round Brighton (and park) every day from 8:00am to 4:00pm, looked at me with a 'told you so' expression when I sympathised. DON'T ask her for her opinions of traffic 'improvements' unless you want to hear an hour of abuse. They're all stressed enough as it is.

 

[The Large One]

Good grief, you are purposely being argumentative aren't you ?

For which you then carry on being argumentative. Meanwhile...

I've not stated at all in this thread that bus and cycle lanes are a frivolous use of money. I was talking about the unnecessary works that have taken place as part of adding them.

So you have no desire to make the place look nicer as well as function better? Yeah, I suppose that would be frivolous.

While more expensive as an upfront cost, the paving blocks on the road are lower maintenance than the tarmac. This, plus having them as a kind of continuation of the pavement - a street design seen up and down the country - renders them far more attractive. Therefore, if you're going to do it, you do it whole, rather than piecemeal, which incidentally, is what the funding application was about. Your alternative is to do it on the cheap and have the place looking tacky, with the expense on the council in three or four years' time.

 

[The Large One]

Just as a general comment, for the first time in over twenty years I had to drive in Brighton this morning, I had to get from Fiveways to Peacehaven via Saltdean. (Fiveways is poorly served by buses so it was simply not feasible to do the journey by bus otherwise I'd still be out there). Bloody hell. Do people really do that journey every day? If those queues haven't deterred people from driving then nothing will.

My wife, a district nurse who has to drive round Brighton (and park) every day from 8:00am to 4:00pm, looked at me with a 'told you so' expression when I sympathised. DON'T ask her for her opinions of traffic 'improvements' unless you want to hear an hour of abuse. They're all stressed enough as it is.

Sorry, six buses an hour in each direction is 'poorly served'?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sorry, six buses an hour in each direction is 'poorly served'?

It's not the frequency of the buses that denote good service but whether they're going in the direction that you want.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The critical difference between public transport in London and outside London is that the London network is fully regulated. Fares, timetables and routes are set by the local authority (TfL), who also select the operators to run the services, using a franchise system. Outside London, the powers of the local authority are restricted to providing individual route subsidies only where no operator can be found to provide the service without subsidy. Fares, timetables and routes are largely decided by the operators, not the council.

The reason for this difference is quite simple ... a political decision by the Thatcher government in 1985 not to risk the effects of deregulation in London, and a judgement made by Thatcher that public transport outside London didn't really matter.

 

[Brovion]

Hands up all on here who think, when the greens are voted out of office eventually, the next ruling party will reverse all the green's changes they have made, ie cycle lanes this bus stop stuff etc, and restore the city to how it was?

Not a chance in hell!

Indeed. Tories, Greens, Lib-Dems, Labour, there's no real difference between them. There's no real opposition in Brighton and apart from minor budget quibbles the Green councillors could switch to Tory and vice-versa and no one would really notice. As you say no matter what party wins the next Council election we will barely notice any difference.

And bien pensants wonder why ordinary people are so pissed off with mainstream politics and politicians.

 

[The Large One]

It's not the frequency of the buses that denote good service but whether they're going in the direction that you want.

When I had to regularly visit hospital from Fiveways last year, it was two buses (26 or 46 to Old Steine, 1 or 7 to RSCH). The frequency meant I arrived in about 20 minutes.

 

[Brovion]

Sorry, six buses an hour in each direction is 'poorly served'?

Yes. They all go one way - west. (And half of them only go as far as Churchill Square). About last November I bought a car having gone nearly four years without one. One of the reasons I got one was because I had to go from Fiveways to the Royal Alex (and back) on a regular basis and as quickly as possible, i.e. I couldn't afford the time to hang around in the cold and the wet even if I'd wanted to. It was then that I realised that the bus service in Fiveways is shit. (And the bit that isn't shit is over-priced).

 

[brighton bluenose]

In London part of the council tax is used to subsidise the public transport. Why is that in London only and not other towns/ cities? I wouldnt mind paying an extra bit in council tax per month if it meant cheaper travel.

Ref the Bus charges there is a massive disconnect in price vs distance traveled. Example being a colleague of mine sometimes gets the bus into work from Eastbourne [to Brighton] at a cost of £5.20 - this is good value. - For myself getting a bus in from Bevendean to the city centre is £4.70, very expensive.

*the above prices assumes tickets purchased from driver. - can be slightly lower with a key card.

Bevendean to Brighton @ £4.70 is a saver which gives you travel throughout the area all day - which is not unreasonable as a one off and if you are using the buses regularly for work in town at £66.00 for 28 days it works out at £3.30 return per working day plus unlimited evening and weekend use - that is hardly expensive!!

 

[brighton bluenose]

Just as a general comment, for the first time in over twenty years I had to drive in Brighton this morning, I had to get from Fiveways to Peacehaven via Saltdean. (Fiveways is poorly served by buses so it was simply not feasible to do the journey by bus otherwise I'd still be out there). Bloody hell. Do people really do that journey every day? If those queues haven't deterred people from driving then nothing will.

My wife, a district nurse who has to drive round Brighton (and park) every day from 8:00am to 4:00pm, looked at me with a 'told you so' expression when I sympathised. DON'T ask her for her opinions of traffic 'improvements' unless you want to hear an hour of abuse. They're all stressed enough as it is.

What route did you use?

 

[Brovion]

When I had to regularly visit hospital from Fiveways last year, it was two buses (26 or 46 to Old Steine, 1 or 7 to RSCH). The frequency meant I arrived in about 20 minutes.

Think 20 was the best I did. 30-35 (including waiting time) wasn't uncommon. Sunday evenings of course was much longer.

 

[halbpro]

Sorry, six buses an hour in each direction is 'poorly served'?

6 buses, plus another 4 an hour into town if you walk down the hill and pick the 50 up. And if you walk down to the Dip you can pick up 2 an hour going to Falmer via Lewes Road (although I wish they'd offset them by 15 minutes, I think they'd arrive into Sussex University at a more convenient time).

I will say the service on Sundays in the Fiveways area is pants though.

 

[Brovion]

What route did you use?

Down to the Vogue Gyratory, up Bear Road, right down Bob Wilson Avenue, left at the lights by Roedean firestation and carried on east along the coast road. My wife was navigating as she does it every day and obviously knows the best way. (I write that last sentence with perhaps the merest trace of irony). As I mentioned I haven't driven in a Brighton rush hour for decades and hadn't a clue which way was best.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Yes. They all go one way - west. (And half of them only go as far as Churchill Square). About last November I bought a car having gone nearly four years without one. One of the reasons I got one was because I had to go from Fiveways to the Royal Alex (and back) on a regular basis and as quickly as possible, i.e. I couldn't afford the time to hang around in the cold and the wet even if I'd wanted to. It was then that I realised that the bus service in Fiveways is shit. (And the bit that isn't shit is over-priced).

How easy is parking at the hospital?

My experience of a daily need to travel to the RSCH site is that the option of driving is never as reliable as the option of using the bus.

 

[Brovion]

How easy is parking at the hospital?

My experience of a daily need to travel to the RSCH site is that the option of driving is never as reliable as the option of using the bus.

Once I had a car I parked in one of the surrounding roads. Never had a problem finding a space (had more of a problem once I got back to Fiveways). It was mainly evenings and weekends, not sure if that makes a difference.

My friend's son (who we were visiting and also supporting his parents) is now in Chailey. Not even Al can claim that it's easy to get from Fiveways to Chailey by bus! Especially on a Sunday!

 

[Garage_Doors]

The figures from 2010, before the new layout was put in...

Car drivers - 38%
Car passangers - 6%
Bus coach - 19%
Train - 1%
Motorcycle - 1%
Bicycle - 5%
Walk - 29%
Taxi - 0%
Light goods vehicles - 1%

In terms of statistics, '0%' doesn't mean 'no-one', it means somewhere between 0 and 0.5%.

Pretty comprehensive thank you.