Burke pull your finger out

[Thunder Bolt]

Christ on a bike, this is getting painful.

Though probably not as painful as Bozza's forehead must be right now from banging it repeatedly against a brick wall.

If the gentlemen in question (Burke/Bloom) were crap negotiators, chaps, we'd have been sitting here with £4 million in the bank for Ulloa, or a sulky striker who doesn't want to be here. The fact that we may potentially, if he plays x number of games, Leicester stay up etc, be sitting on well over ten million in the end is more than good evidence of, firstly their skills and secondly, their desire to do what's in the best interests of the Albion.

It doesn't matter what we have NOW, it's all about putting ourselves in a position to be in contention next May. People panicking that we don't have the squad yet, despite what Bozza has said about potential deals in the offing- do you also think a defeat in the first game means a calamitous season too? Because that's pretty much what you seem to be implying: that an incomplete squad come 9th August equals certain failure.

Jeez.

Point of order, Burke is responsible for players purchased and Barber responsible for player sales but I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Mowgli37]

I think I may take a break from NSC for a while. We've got people moaning about the lack of signings, people moaning about the people moaning about the lack of signings and of course then we have the people who moan about the lack of signings moaning about the people who moan about them for moaning about the lack of signings....it just never ends!!

 

[B.W.]

I hope you weren't using Return Of The Rev's made up figures.

No. But apologies again if I'm wide of the mark.

 

[Keeping The Dream Alive.]

You now I tried and failed to find that link, since you asked me the exact same question last time round.

Because there is no such link. Why make the statement again if you know it's probably not true?

 

[B.W.]

In that case I just don't get it. You ignore the counter arguments of those who have a deeper level of insight and inside knowledge of the club and those running it and then move your attention to making other glib and outlandish statements about our fans' loyalty. It just sounds like you don't like the reality of what it takes to run a club sensibly and successfully in the modern era and want someone to blame for it not being 1979 anymore.

Bit harsh. And how do you know my relative position on inside knowledge c.f. others on here?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

If the gentlemen in question (Burke/Bloom) were crap negotiators, chaps, we'd have been sitting here with £4 million in the bank for Ulloa, or a sulky striker who doesn't want to be here. The fact that we may potentially, if he plays x number of games, Leicester stay up etc, be sitting on well over ten million in the end is more than good evidence of, firstly their skills and secondly, their desire to do what's in the best interests of the Albion.



Jeez.

Very good post and given the Ulloa deal I think from a selling perspective abilities cannot be questioned.

However, are we good at negotiating from a purchaser perspective?

I don't mean transfer fee's but with agents etc.. Burke has identified players but for whatever reason we are not clinching the deal (to date).

If I was a player shown round The Amex and the training ground, surely you'd be impressed.

We seemed to have more success when Poyet was manager...... Is it because he was more involved and like him or hate him, he was far more charismatic than Oscar.

There must be a reason....

 

[B.W.]

Why do you keep repeating it as fact then ?

Just because I can't find the link doesn't mean I didn't read it in a reputable source.

 

[B.W.]

I think I may take a break from NSC for a while. We've got people moaning about the lack of signings, people moaning about the people moaning about the lack of signings and of course then we have the people who moan about the lack of signings moaning about the people who moan about them for moaning about the lack of signings....it just never ends!!

Now this made me smile.

 

[edna krabappel]

TBH Edna I'm talking about attendances v capacity at the Goldstone where, as our footballing fortunes declined, so did our fan-base (unsurprisingly). Do you disagree?

Not necessarily, but I would qualify that to some degree by saying that the 1980s marked a low point in football crowds generally (and this is when our fortunes, on and off the field, really started to decline). Clubs like Newcastle, who can pull in 50,000 now, were playing in front of gates of 12,000. In 1983, Chelsea's average gate was 12k, in 1989, 15k. Man United 36k. And, despite having the best, loudest, most loyal, non-plastic, authentic, fanatical followers on earth, our friends from Selhurst Park pulled in an average of just 6,700 supporters per game in 1986.

 

[B.W.]

Very good post and given the Ulloa deal I think from a selling perspective abilities cannot be questioned.

However, are we good at negotiating from a purchaser perspective?

I don't mean transfer fee's but with agents etc.. Burke has identified players but for whatever reason we are not clinching the deal (to date).

If I was a player shown round The Amex and the training ground, surely you'd be impressed.

We seemed to have more success when Poyet was manager...... Is it because he was more involved and like him or hate him, he was far more charismatic than Oscar.

There must be a reason....

Snap! I suspect the Gus factor is significant. I don't know of course, but...

 

[B.W.]

Not necessarily, but I would qualify that to some degree by saying that the 1980s marked a low point in football crowds generally (and this is when our fortunes, on and off the field, really started to decline). Clubs like Newcastle, who can pull in 50,000 now, were playing in front of gates of 12,000. In 1983, Chelsea's average gate was 12k, in 1989, 15k. Man United 36k. And, despite having the best, loudest, most loyal, non-plastic, authentic, fanatical followers on earth, our friends from Selhurst Park pulled in an average of just 6,700 supporters per game in 1986.

Fair point. I say again I really hope I'm being too much of a worrier, but the historical precedent IS there.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Interestingly, since we lost Gus' obvious powers of persuasion and his control of recruitment (and you maybe aware I'm not a big fan of his!), things have been a lot more patchy on the recruitment front. Interesting that you have to go back that far for your example, don't you think? Not really the same team then v now.

But then we also lost 14m quid the last season "Gus was in control of recruitment".

 

[LamieRobertson]

Christ on a bike, this is getting painful.

Though probably not as painful as Bozza's forehead must be right now from banging it repeatedly against a brick wall.

If the gentlemen in question (Burke/Bloom) were crap negotiators, chaps, we'd have been sitting here with £4 million in the bank for Ulloa, or a sulky striker who doesn't want to be here. The fact that we may potentially, if he plays x number of games, Leicester stay up etc, be sitting on well over ten million in the end is more than good evidence of, firstly their skills and secondly, their desire to do what's in the best interests of the Albion.

It doesn't matter what we have NOW, it's all about putting ourselves in a position to be in contention next May. People panicking that we don't have the squad yet, despite what Bozza has said about potential deals in the offing- do you also think a defeat in the first game means a calamitous season too? Because that's pretty much what you seem to be implying: that an incomplete squad come 9th August equals certain failure.

Jeez.

Thats a bit silly of him

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Fair point. I say again I really hope I'm being too much of a worrier, but the historical precedent IS there.

It was Mike Bamber or Mike Bailey that said 'fickle fans', when the attendances dropped from approx 21000 to about 14000.

Of course the argument at the time was the quality of football played under Bailey, which despite achieving our loftiest ever league position was dire.

 

[Hungry Joe]

Bit harsh. And how do you know my relative position on inside knowledge c.f. others on here?

Bozza has put to bed the majority of your arguments yet still you persist. Or do you think he is just making it all up? Our recruitment system landed Ulloa and the people running the club then played a blinder in selling him for an inflated figure, yet our recruitment policy "is and has been" seriously flawed. Our 80% fickle fan base didn't abandon us when it looked like we were going nowhere last season until right at the end, yet they will this season and inflict more damage in doing so than signing players at above the market fees and contracts that has been the death knell of so many less prudently run clubs. I'm sorry if you think I'm being harsh, but none of your arguments stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But then we also lost 14m quid the last season "Gus was in control of recruitment".

He wasn't ever in charge of recruitment. Prior to David Burke was John Stephenson, and that £14m debt included redundancy payments to 18 long serving members of staff, the electronic advertising installation, the museum etc which was all expenditure timed to be spent before the FFP rules kicked in.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

But then we also lost 14m quid the last season "Gus was in control of recruitment".

And perhaps that is what it all boils down to Poyet had a free-hand and as a consequence we were paying inflated wages, hence the need for control.

Though as others have said it does result in us doing our business later and paying a consequence (albeit potentially minor), early in the season in terms of preparation.

Some of this would be negated if we had a manager that stayed longer than Oscar, as tactics would be in place.

 

[KZNSeagull]

He wasn't ever in charge of recruitment. Prior to David Burke was John Stephenson, and that £14m debt included redundancy payments to 18 long serving members of staff, the electronic advertising installation, the museum etc which was all expenditure timed to be spent before the FFP rules kicked in.

Yes, I know he was not in charge of recruitment - am just humouring B.W. Yes, the rest is also true but it also shows that Gus was backed at that time with considerable expenditure on the playing side as FFP was not in effect then.

So in response to B.W's point about a "Gus factor" in recruitment - I am sure there was one, but then he was given the financial backing too. The knowledge that the following season he may not get as much backing due to FFP was maybe a factor in his leaving, but that is another discussion had on here many times.

 

[LamieRobertson]

roll on 2 weeks and we can discuss a league game

 

[Barnham Seagull]

Or you could look at the Ulloa deal as such -

Let Murray go for nothing, spent £3m on CMS then spent another season looking for a proper replacement for Murray and brought in Ulloa for £2m and in between loaned barn door Billy and Vokes. And the combined larger wages of CMS and Ulloa.

So yes we made money on the individual deal but spent plenty in trying to sort the problem caused by letting a player go for a few k and gave our rivals a ticket to the prem.