Burka Ban/ Is England Next ?

[Gully]

Interesting to note that had Hitler,at the time,invaded England and not Russia,we'd all be speaking German and following the Bundesliga.That sends a cold shiver up my spine.

...mind you, on the upside, we would be celebrating our team getting to the last four of the World Cup!

 

[sir danny cullip]

I gave up reading on page 3 but thought I'd add my own comment. Integration into whatever society containing different groups is all about compromise and what you see as fair compromise. I don't think wearing a burka is a fair compromise and would question the need for it, especially given the other less extreme options available. If we're looking at reasons to justify a ban, what are the justifications for anyone wearing it in the first place? That good old, unjustified, completely irrational notion of religion. Fantastic.

 

[beorhthelm]

If we're looking at reasons to justify a ban, what are the justifications for anyone wearing it in the first place? That good old, unjustified, completely irrational notion of religion. Fantastic.

you're not wrong there. however, if unjustified irrational notions of religions are reason to ban things then we have to look at Jew's skull caps, Sikh turbans, catholic nuns habits. i'd be all for that, but thats not apparently on the table. why single out muslim burkas/naqib? some play the security issue, but as i say ealier theres no ban on balaclava's or hoodies. its fear and prejudice that makes people want to ban it.

 

[Gully]

...some play the security issue, but as i say ealier theres no ban on balaclava's or hoodies. its fear and prejudice that makes people want to ban it.

Very true, how often does someone use a balaclava to disguise themselves when committing a crime...watching an episode of Crimewatch is usually enough to confirm this...I can't recollect many times where they have been looking for an armed robber who wore a burkha.

 

[bhaexpress]

you're not wrong there. however, if unjustified irrational notions of religions are reason to ban things then we have to look at Jew's skull caps, Sikh turbans, catholic nuns habits. i'd be all for that, but thats not apparently on the table. why single out muslim burkas/naqib? some play the security issue, but as i say ealier theres no ban on balaclava's or hoodies. its fear and prejudice that makes people want to ban it.

Possibly the most sensible post on this entire thread.

 

[bhaexpress]

Very true, how often does someone use a balaclava to disguise themselves when committing a crime...watching an episode of Crimewatch is usually enough to confirm this...I can't recollect many times where they have been looking for an armed robber who wore a burkha.

Think you're missing the point there a little. The point is that burkas are not the only item of apparel that can be used to hide a person's features. However, there was a suspected terrorist who escaped the country a few years ago as he was dressed as a Muslim woman and thus had his face covered. An extreme example I know but it did happen.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Just a shame they all think you are an ugly europhile who would like to do Mandelson up the wrongun.

The 'them' in my post is an article of clothing. So this response does not make sense.

 

[Gully]

Think you're missing the point there a little. The point is that burkas are not the only item of apparel that can be used to hide a person's features.

Maybe I did to a degree, the point I was making was in relation to concealing someones true identity, which can be done in many ways...whereas the real point was about fear and prejudice, which I agree with completely and why in a vote I would oppose a ban as I believe that goes wholly against the image of Britain being a society that is welcoming and tolerant.

 

[Bwian]

1) Security at airports... no problem there. If you have been to Heathrow in the last few years, you would have noticed the Islamic dress code (minus veil) of the security people working there, checking the security.
How difficult would it be for a muslim security officer at Heathrow to check a Muslim woman traveller?

2)Driving? Who has seen a veiled woman driving a car?

3)Teaching? Have any veiled teachers been teaching in the UK?

Point 1: I have been through Heathrow numerous times and the departure lounge in Terminal 3 always seems to have a large number of veiled muslim women waiting to board flights.

Point 2: If you venture in to Crawley during the day you will see them driving wearing the veil which is a major road hazard in my opinion because they have virtually no peripheral vision as their attempts to park confirm.

Point 3: There was the case fairly recently of the muslim woman who was a teacher who wasted tax payers' money in her attempt to wear the veil while teaching.

I have just got back from Turkey where there were loads of Iranians staying at the hotel I was in. In 36 C heat the men walked around the hotel in shorts and short sleeved shirts while their wives and daughters were covered head to foot in 3 layers of clothing including black raincoats (no veils though). On the beach these women waded into the sea still dressed as described (minus the raincoats) while the men were in their Speedos. Is it any wonder that the majority in the West don't understand them?

 

[sir danny cullip]

you're not wrong there. however, if unjustified irrational notions of religions are reason to ban things then we have to look at Jew's skull caps, Sikh turbans, catholic nuns habits. i'd be all for that, but thats not apparently on the table. why single out muslim burkas/naqib? some play the security issue, but as i say ealier theres no ban on balaclava's or hoodies. its fear and prejudice that makes people want to ban it.

I think people are generally very accepting of religious signs, skull caps etc as they are just that, just a sign of a religion. The difference I see with Burkas is that they aren't a sign and are an attempt at complete segregation, not a fair compromise or a valid attempt at integration.

 

[ROKERITE]

you're not wrong there. however, if unjustified irrational notions of religions are reason to ban things then we have to look at Jew's skull caps, Sikh turbans, catholic nuns habits. i'd be all for that, but thats not apparently on the table. why single out muslim burkas/naqib? some play the security issue, but as i say ealier theres no ban on balaclava's or hoodies. its fear and prejudice that makes people want to ban it.

How many times must it be repeated that the burka is NOT a requirement of Islam? There was a mullah on television yesterday who actually supports the idea of banning them. However, even if burkas were a religious demand, that should not affect the decision to ban or not. None of the items of clothing connected with faith that you've listed hide the identity of their wearer, and this is what distinguishes the burka.

 

[defrocked priest]

Seems to be gaining momentum:

The Press Association: Spain set to join burka ban debate

BBC News - Belgian lawmakers pass burka ban

Burka ban ruled out by immigration minister - Telegraph

Course, this Green fella can simply be replaced and knick,knack,paddywhack, send the burkas home.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The immigration minister on one hand is saying that we will no longer be a soft touch for immigrants but then says there will be no burka ban. A ban will send a clear message , the French have been doing so for years because their idea is if you live in France you assimilate into the French way of life.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

Ive seen plenty of interviews where muslim women say they prefer it.

Prefer it to being otherwise never allowed outside the house, possibly.

The burqa is the most extreme example of the enslavement of women by institutionalised male prejudice. Consider how such women are denied so many freedoms that western women take for granted:-

Athletics, swimming (unless wearing a ludicrous overcoat) hairstyling, going out unaccompanied, driving a car (Saudi), even basic education (in Taliban areas)...

All because of the way that 7th century texts have been interpreted by a bunch of misogynistic men. Pity that their differing interpretations lead to routine slaughter of one bunch by another. That much-vaunted universal pan-Muslim brotherhood of Ummah does still seem some way off...

Someone else pointed out the hypocrisy that has Arab men strutting around the beach in Speedos (or worse) while their women are forced to swelter under multiple layers of restrictive clothing.

Perhaps the burqa should indeed be welcomed in Europe as an expression of freedom of choice. Yes, just as soon as similar freedoms permit western women to walk unmolested in a sundress through a Saudi shopping mall.

 

[defrocked priest]

The immigration minister on one hand is saying that we will no longer be a soft touch for immigrants but then says there will be no burka ban. A ban will send a clear message , the French have been doing so for years because their idea is if you live in France you assimilate into the French way of life.

Australia has as well.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I saw a lady come out of the super market tonight wearing a burqa and the first thing I thought of when I saw her was this.

Which kinda makes it all clear to me now.

They aren't women under those burqas, they are flipping well Darth Vader's Imperial Guards!

 

[cyanide-sid]

Think you're missing the point there a little. The point is that burkas are not the only item of apparel that can be used to hide a person's features. However, there was a suspected terrorist who escaped the country a few years ago as he was dressed as a Muslim woman and thus had his face covered. An extreme example I know but it did happen.

Wasn`t that Jim Dale in Carry On Up The Kyber ?