Build a bonfire song racist

[timco]

For what it is worth I think my OP is hard to follow as I deliberately blanked out normal words just in case someone took offence to them regardless of what was in my meaning. I was making a point at how difficult it is to say anything these days as someone may take offence at what you may be saying even if no offence was meant.

As the fable goes, If fools keep crying wolf when there is no wolf eventually no one will take no notice of them when there is a wolf.

Anyone can see racism (or discrimination for that matter of any kind) in anything if they have a mindset to think that way.

I think this kind of stupidity does the whole racism argument a disservice and does not help the cause.

My wife is Russian, she finds Alexander the Meerkat offensive, is she right to be offended? Should the advert be banned?

The original subject matter was "Build a bonfire song racist", no it is not it could be if you sung put the black chap on the top and the Chinese chap in the middle but no reference was made to the colour in the song.

The racism is in the minds of those who complained for certain if it was in the minds of those who sung it is another matter and one I think will never be proved. So more wasted time, more wasted money just so self important serial complainers can be satisfied and in turn our individual freedoms are reduced.

It is only a humble view point.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Can't argue with much of that, to be honest. It's not going to be possible to prove racism in this case. I think that many of those chanting may have been doing so to 'support' John Terry's racism, but as you say, it's a grey area.

The issue isn't so much about racist intent as racist effect. If 'black' players are consistently given a rougher ride than other players, it doesn't matter what the intent is in the minds of the chanters. The possible effect that black players may have to deal with more vitriolic abuse, for whatever reason, from supporters than other players of other skin colours is a circumstance worth tackling.

 

[timco]

In bold is a blow-by-blow stream of what I was thinking while reading your post earlier for the first time. I don't know if it helps in any way:

Does it?

Feedback is always helpful (not meant sarcasticly even if it seems that way) although probably better in a private message than boring others on here

I am largely self educated and I am a terrible teacher.

 

[Nibble]

If anyone thinks that song is racist they want to get themselves over to the Baltics or anywhere in mainland Europe, they'd soon have an eye opening experience.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The issue isn't so much about racist intent as racist effect. If 'black' players are consistently given a rougher ride than other players, it doesn't matter what the intent is in the minds of the chanters. The possible effect that black players may have to deal with more vitriolic abuse, for whatever reason, from supporters than other players of other skin colours is a circumstance worth tackling.

If this is the effect, it is very much worth tackling.

I also believe that the intent was there in a significant number of those chanting, with other 'sheep' joining in. It would be nice if the attitudes prevalent in a significant minority of the England support were dealt with too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If anyone thinks that song is racist they want to get themselves over to the Baltics or anywhere in mainland Europe, they'd soon have an eye opening experience.

Levels of racism...we're way down the league table when put in with the Baltic nations (and much of Eastern Europe). That doesn't mean that we shouldn't tackle things when they need looking at.

 

[Nibble]

Levels of racism...we're way down the league table when put in with the Baltic nations (and much of Eastern Europe). That doesn't mean that we shouldn't tackle things when they need looking at.

I agree, personally I don't mind bit of casual racism though.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I agree, personally I don't mina bit of casual racism but I'm a white, midle class chap from Southern England. And what a better world it would be if there were more of us, eh chaps!

(why did you censor your quote?)

 

[Nibble]

(why did you censor your quote?)

I was going for the short snappy thing and just got all tangled up in my own words.

 

[trueblue]

That is rather tenuous, if you look for something hard enough, you will find it.

Not tenuous at all. Anton had nothing to to do with that match or indeed England overall, so the race case is the connection.

 

[Seagull1989]

The build a bonfire chant isn't racist! But I expect FIFA will use England as an example and clamp down on us really hard while letting the rest of Europe get away with it. Surely that's discrimination against England!

 

[Bill Cassidy's tie up]

Nonsense the only reason because he refused to play for his country worlds going mad

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Nonsense the only reason because he refused to play for his country worlds going mad

Not necessarily. If someone wanted to get at black players, it's smarter to exploit issues over which certain ones are making themselves unpopular, rather than straight-out racist chanting.

 

[Bill Cassidy's tie up]

Not necessarily. If someone wanted to get at black players, it's smarter to exploit issues over which certain ones are making themselves unpopular, rather than straight-out racist chanting.

Honestly reckon you're thinking a bit too deep there

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Honestly reckon you're thinking a bit too deep there

I can see why you think that. I know I don't go around dreaming up ways of getting people to hate others, and I get the sense you don't either.

But racists (especially organised ones) have a history of marshalling whatever issue that is in the public consciousness for their own ends, be it immigration levels, local unemployment, gun crime, 'national identity' etc. It's not so much of a leap for them to exploit football issues that have made certain 'black' players unpopular rather go for the jugular of being overtly racial about it. On this, I'm not saying it's definitely the case with the Ferdinand issue. Just saying it is plausible and deserves investigation.