Build a bonfire song racist

[timco]

It's giving me a bit of a headache trying to make sense of this.

However, I guess that the main point that you are trying to get across is that you disagree with me.

I suggested that whether the song is racist or not depends on who you are building a bonfire for, and why. The 'and why' part of my sentence is the important part, suggesting as it does, that intent in the mind of the singer is important. If it is intended to be racist, then it is.

Sorry I was trying to be ironic more than anything.

So tell me how are you going to prove what was in their minds?

I agree what is in their minds is very important but this, I think, is very hard to prove.

I just think, as with a lot of things, we have swung too far.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Sorry I was trying to be ironic more than anything.

So tell me how are you going to prove what was in their minds?

I agree what is in their minds is very important but this, I think, is very hard to prove.

I just think, as with a lot of things, we have swung too far.

It is hard to prove one way or another what's in someone's mind. And sometimes they don't even know! But that doesn't mean that things shouldn't be investigated, and something can only be investigated if it reported. Part of the investigation might involve a longitudinal study on who is at the receiving end of negative chanting / songs / booing.

 

[Nibble]

I do use spell check it is built into Chrome so point out the spelling mistakes that Chrome and Google has not.

My dyslexic thing was to point out you do not know what disabilities others face so it is rather wrong to have a go at something based on your own abilities.

No, no, you've gone again.

 

[timco]

No, no, you've gone again.

So you not taking up the offer of dazzling me with your perfection by being exact on my imperfection?

 

[Nibble]

So you not taking up the offer of dazzling me with your perfection by being exact on my imperfection?

What would you like to know?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

So you not taking up the offer of dazzling me with your perfection by being exact on my imperfection?

Seriously, you want people to point out the spelling and punctuation mistakes?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Forgetting how posters post for moment, back to the original post I would hope the song was sung for the right reasons. That is Rio is a **** of the highest order and an assumed drugy (being the same as failing to provide a breath test for police assumes guilt and sentenced as such.)

 

[Dandyman]

yes, it was all a misunderstanding...

Was the fat boy at the back in Deliverance ?

 

[Nibble]

Seriously, you want people to point out the spelling and punctuation mistakes?

I've lost track of what's being asked of me if I'm honest.

 

[timco]

Seriously, you want people to point out the spelling and punctuation mistakes?

Not sure who you were asking but just in case it was meant to be me.

As people have made such a big thing of it whilst being somewhat imperfect themselves yes.

What I wrote makes perfect sense to me I want to know what it is about it that causes such confusion to some on here.

I did not raise this subject but now it has let us have it out!

 

[Nibble]

Your post was hard to follow, I pointed it out. You have dyslexia. I'm hardly on the track at the paralympics tripping up runners.

 

[timco]

I've lost track of what's being asked of me if I'm honest.

I asked you to point out the spelling mistakes that Google and Chrome missed is this clear enough for you? Now I understand why you had such problems with my first post as comprehension is not your strong point is it.

I am offended by the way at your attack on my disability, not all disabilities are obvious (I am also somewhat deaf but to look at me you would not know this, not as obvious as being in a wheelchair or walking with a limp).

BTW I also did not have any real education, decided to absent myself at the age of 13, having been forced out by bullies (some call them teachers, I don't).

Maybe, just maybe you will think before you make such pointless criticism that had nothing to offer to the point again when not knowing the whole situation... or maybe just maybe I am being to sensitive!

 

[Billy the Fish]

It's giving me a bit of a headache trying to make sense of this.

However, I guess that the main point that you are trying to get across is that you disagree with me.

I suggested that whether the song is racist or not depends on who you are building a bonfire for, and why. The 'and why' part of my sentence is the important part, suggesting as it does, that intent in the mind of the singer is important. If it is intended to be racist, then it is.

To elaborate on what I put on the other thread, I actually agree with you on this point. For all we know the blokes singing the song are all paid up NF members and they fully meant the song to be about burning black people. It could of course be entirely innocent, we don't know because we don't have access to peoples thoughts.

Complaints like this are totally counter productive, you have to look very very hard to find anything racist here.

Is it possible to be racist by proxy? i.e if you show support for John Terry after he was racist towards anton, does that make you racist? I'm not sure it does, it's a grey area but we don't seem to be giving people the benefit of the doubt. It's just wasting time on something that can't be proved and it's diminishing the credibility of any future racist accusations.

In my opinion, obviously.

 

[Nibble]

I asked you to point out the spelling mistakes that Google and Chrome missed is this clear enough for you? Now I understand why you had such problems with my first post as comprehension is not your strong point is it.

I am offended by the way at your attack on my disability, not all disabilities are obvious (I am also somewhat deaf but to look at me you would not know this, not as obvious as being in a wheelchair or walking with a limp).

BTW I also did not have any real education, decided to absent myself at the age of 13, having been forced out by bullies (some call them teachers, I don't).

Maybe, just maybe you will think before you make such pointless criticism that had nothing to offer to the point again when not knowing the whole situation... or maybe just maybe I am being to sensitive!

I don't believe in offence. However, if I have been out of turn, I apologise.

 

[timco]

Your post was hard to follow, I pointed it out. You have dyslexia. I'm hardly on the track at the paralympics tripping up runners.

So are you saying it has gone too far? This is largely the point I was trying to make I am glad you have got it now... have you? By the way should it not be Paralympics? with a capital letter? Just asking....

 

[timco]

I don't believe in offence. However, if I have been out of turn, I apologise.

You do not believe in offence? You think it is not possible to be offensive?

 

[Nibble]

So are you saying it has gone too far? This is largely the point I was trying to make I am glad you have got it now... have you? By the way should it not be Paralympics? with a capital letter? Just asking....

It's debatable.

 

[Nibble]

You do not believe in offence? You think it is not possible to be offensive?

I think the idea of offending someone or being offended is too far on the side of abstract for me to give it any credence. I believe you can insult people and be insulted but offence? I simply don't believe in such a thing. Either way, you have my apology, do with it what you will.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Not sure who you were asking but just in case it was meant to be me.

As people have made such a big thing of it whilst being somewhat imperfect themselves yes.

What I wrote makes perfect sense to me I want to know what it is about it that causes such confusion to some on here.

I did not raise this subject but now it has let us have it out!

In bold is a blow-by-blow stream of what I was thinking while reading your post earlier for the first time. I don't know if it helps in any way:

Does it?

So if I put people who just happen to be of colour (But lighter-skinned people are of colour too) in it (Not totally clear what you mean by 'put in it' at this point. You mean 'use their name in the 'Build a Bonfire' song - so say that) this is automatically racist? Surely to be this I would need to refer to their colour for this to happen?

If I say Reo (Rio Ferdinand would be clearer) is a ***t it is not racist as it only refers to the person,Full stop. Then 'It is...' offensive not racist, (Need to end sentence here) if I say he is a b**** C*** then I am being racist and open to prosecution (end sentence here. Then something like, 'This is..') as I am referring to his potential membership of a racial minority as a possible reason why he is a ***t.

We have become too PC (what is your understanding of this term?) too worried about such things (What things?) and the idiots that complained of this need to go and find real racism to complain about. I heard a tit, (don't think he was b**** as he was a Lord and we tend to prosecute our Lords when they have colour)(the tangent in the brackets adds nothing and distracts from the point you are making) , from the Kick it out campaign, who was saying that the mere chant itself was disgusting, setting fire to people is not nice!

No one is advocating someone should be actually set fire too ('to' not 'too') it is simply a met-afore ('metaphor') and anyone who actually does this anyone who uses metaphors? is a twit.

As to the why not sure they said it was because they is B**** may have been simply because they were Chelski fans. (I have no idea what this last sentence means)

I have self censored as I don't want Bozza losing adverts again because of offensive language

 

[Pogue Mahone]

To elaborate on what I put on the other thread, I actually agree with you on this point. For all we know the blokes singing the song are all paid up NF members and they fully meant the song to be about burning black people. It could of course be entirely innocent, we don't know because we don't have access to peoples thoughts.

Complaints like this are totally counter productive, you have to look very very hard to find anything racist here.

Is it possible to be racist by proxy? i.e if you show support for John Terry after he was racist towards anton, does that make you racist? I'm not sure it does, it's a grey area but we don't seem to be giving people the benefit of the doubt. It's just wasting time on something that can't be proved and it's diminishing the credibility of any future racist accusations.

In my opinion, obviously.

Can't argue with much of that, to be honest. It's not going to be possible to prove racism in this case. I think that many of those chanting may have been doing so to 'support' John Terry's racism, but as you say, it's a grey area.