[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

He might have done a better job if he had researched the British Council,and it's predecessors,on education.None so blind as those who don't want to see!If the opinion on science and medicine could be proved,I would be astonished.

Indeed, you are unwilling to see.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

And how many people have been saved from cholera,smallpox,typhoid,polio etc.The British Empire wasn't the three horsemen of the Apocalypse.Plus the much maligned justice and other democratic institutions.

That's hardly the point. If we had made the effort, with our enormous administrative skills all those years ago, to do the job properly, we should have been able to see through a smooth transition. Instead it saw the mass migration of some 10,000,000 people and the death in riots and so on of up to a million people, ALL OF WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED!

 

[The Clamp]

That's hardly the point. If we had made the effort, with our enormous administrative skills all those years ago, to do the job properly, we should have been able to see through a smooth transition. Instead it saw the mass migration of some 10,000,000 people and the death in riots and so on of up to a million people, ALL OF WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED!

It takes a special kind of ignoramus not to acknowledge this with all the coverage of partition at the moment.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I wish you lot would stop banging on about the Empire ... I'm getting quite teary eyed

 

[GT49er]

That's hardly the point. If we had made the effort, with our enormous administrative skills all those years ago, to do the job properly, we should have been able to see through a smooth transition. Instead it saw the mass migration of some 10,000,000 people and the death in riots and so on of up to a million people, ALL OF WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED!

.............and hindsight's so infallible, isn't it.........


Partition was the perceived wisdom at the time. No, it didn't work out well - and it didn't in Ireland either - but both the sub-continent and Ireland are hotbeds of religious and sectarian conflict and hatred (which is nothing to do with the British Empire - or anything else apart from the conflict and hatred intrinsic in the populations of both places) so bloodshed was a real possibility anyway.
Of course, what some people conveniently forget (especially if they want to have a pop at our history) is that nobody has any idea how many would have died if we HADN'T opted for partition. ALL OF WHICH COULD ALSO HAVE BEEN MILLIONS. We'll never know.

 

[Two Professors]

I know about 30,000 Boers died of disease in British concentration camps. Estimated 1 million died in the fiasco partition of India, 20-50,000 mau mau in concentration camps, 15-30 million on the Indian continent in various famines during British rule.

Have a read up of the treatment of the Mau Mau, if you can stomach it.

I think you could have done a better job with your numbers.Very easy to claim things without a shred of evidence.Perhaps you could have mentioned the fact that more British soldiers died of disease than Boers for a bit of balance,but then,no you wouldn't.The mau-mau war was a terrible conflict,with both sides competing to deliver the worst atrocity.But you would probably excuse one side as freedom fighters,not murdering terrorists.

 

[Two Professors]

Indeed, you are unwilling to see.

What is that supposed to mean?If you have a problem with me,take it to PM if you are scared of the mods.If you have a problem with the good work of the British Council,then you are stupid.Or is it just the British part you don't like?

 

[Two Professors]

It takes a special kind of ignoramus not to acknowledge this with all the coverage of partition at the moment.

It takes a special type of ignoramus to make a comment like that,without adding to the discussion in any way.What's up,you buffoon?Banned from all the other threads,so come to crayon on this one?

 

[knocky1]

I think you could have done a better job with your numbers.Very easy to claim things without a shred of evidence.Perhaps you could have mentioned the fact that more British soldiers died of disease than Boers for a bit of balance,but then,no you wouldn't.The mau-mau war was a terrible conflict,with both sides competing to deliver the worst atrocity.But you would probably excuse one side as freedom fighters,not murdering terrorists.

I never realised your agenda was to support any foreign control of a nation.......still better to lie down than die.

 

[Berty23]

Thank odd all the massive Brexit uestions are sorted. Now they can focus on the details. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/898637705504018432

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

.............and hindsight's so infallible, isn't it.........


Partition was the perceived wisdom at the time. No, it didn't work out well - and it didn't in Ireland either - but both the sub-continent and Ireland are hotbeds of religious and sectarian conflict and hatred (which is nothing to do with the British Empire - or anything else apart from the conflict and hatred intrinsic in the populations of both places) so bloodshed was a real possibility anyway.
Of course, what some people conveniently forget (especially if they want to have a pop at our history) is that nobody has any idea how many would have died if we HADN'T opted for partition. ALL OF WHICH COULD ALSO HAVE BEEN MILLIONS. We'll never know.

I am - and it's probably obvious - not an expert on the matter.......

......... but one of the programmes about it the other night indicated that they put a capable civil servant on the job, but who had no expertise on the Indian situation, and he had about a week to sort things out. If it was realised to be such a big potential problem, perhaps we could have taken just a bit more care over it. If we had spent months planning things carefully and made serious efforts to minimise any fallout and then it still all went wrong, then fair enough, but...........

 

[pastafarian]

Blood-stained comes close, and I note you agree to the other wild epithets. You'll also accept that you've slung the 'murderer' charge around on here. Anyway, I look forward to Portslade Seagull's response to the question.

So no NSC interlocutors were called murderers after all, thought so, I had a suspicion you were making it up.

 

[pastafarian]

It is the acceptance that our currently is falling to pieces that makes me so scared about this whole thing. Many people don't get what it means in the longer term. Link this to inflation far outstripping wage increases and you can see what happens. Staggered so many don't get it. Imports will cost more and unless we bend over a barrel for the EU the exports which in theory benefit from weak currency won't have anywhere to go. I don't get why people are so chilled out about this and think that talking positively about it will magic something upon us.

Have a kitkat.
Did you ever find what mechanism it was that you said we could use to control and reduce the numbers of EU seasonal workers(ie those that are working/in employment), you sort of went a bit quiet about it, I presume you just forgot to share.

 

[Baldseagull]

I think you could have done a better job with your numbers.Very easy to claim things without a shred of evidence.Perhaps you could have mentioned the fact that more British soldiers died of disease than Boers for a bit of balance,but then,no you wouldn't.The mau-mau war was a terrible conflict,with both sides competing to deliver the worst atrocity.But you would probably excuse one side as freedom fighters,not murdering terrorists.

**** me, firstly it is not true that more Brits died of disease than Boers, and secondly if you wish to add them in to the story, it just adds to the death toll of Britains Empire building.
About 13000 British soldiers died from disease and 7000 in combat. The total of British dead was less than the number of Boer children alone that died in concentration camps.
There was another 14000 "Blacks" that also died in the camps.
I would not excuse any force that committed atrocities, but one side was fighting for freedom.

 

[Berty23]

Have a kitkat.
Did you ever find what mechanism it was that you said we could use to control and reduce the numbers of EU seasonal workers(ie those that are working/in employment), you sort of went a bit quiet about it, I presume you just forgot to share.

We can stop those coming without work and why would we want to stop those coming to work? We have record employment levels and historically low unemployment. Imagine if we stopped people coming who then employ lots of other people from home and abroad. What happens? Oh yes. Employment down and unemployment up and lower take on taxes and higher cost in benefit. We get poorer. It is effing stupid.

Look at the level of immigration from outside the EU which is even easier to control. Do we? No. the reason? Because on balance we benefit from open borders. But they speak different and god forbid some even look different.

No robust evidence that immigration suppresses wages and people say our public services are stationed. That is despite the contribution this immigrants make who are nett contributors to society. Go for a stroll around your local hospital and listen to the staff, how many are British? Look at performance data for school kids....the worst group (apart from travelers) are white disadvantaged kids. The highest performing kids are those from immigrant backgrounds who have a far smaller group between disadvantaged and non disadvantaged kids. The country NEEDS these kids to stay and be our workforce of the future.

 

[Berty23]

I am not engaging with people pretending that the British empire was built on anything other than us exploiting everywhere we went. Let's not pretend we have a glorious past where we just tried to help everyone. Ffs.

 

[nicko31]

I am not engaging with people pretending that the British empire was built on anything other than us exploiting everywhere we went. Let's not pretend we have a glorious past where we just tried to help everyone. Ffs.

Yes it wasn't pretty, wished there was more education in school about the British Empire and its legacy on the world today, there's a lot that could be learnt from it

 

[Lincoln Imp]

So no NSC interlocutors were called murderers after all, thought so, I had a suspicion you were making it up.

You famously silly person. You are unable to deny - because it's true - a whole series of offensive low rent name calling but instead concentrate on the fact that the person you (completely falsely) brand a murderer was not actually someone posting on this thread.

 

[Two Professors]

I never realised your agenda was to support any foreign control of a nation.......still better to lie down than die.

But were they nazis or liberals?

 

[Two Professors]

**** me, firstly it is not true that more Brits died of disease than Boers, and secondly if you wish to add them in to the story, it just adds to the death toll of Britains Empire building.
About 13000 British soldiers died from disease and 7000 in combat. The total of British dead was less than the number of Boer children alone that died in concentration camps.
There was another 14000 "Blacks" that also died in the camps.
I would not excuse any force that committed atrocities, but one side was fighting for freedom.