[Politics] Brexit

[Binney on acid]

You lot are so impatient ! Give it another couple of hundred years before passing judgment.

 

[sparkie]

 

[Machiavelli]

You couldn't make it up:

Eurosceptic former MP Owen Paterson takes UK government to European court of human rights – as it happened

Former Tory cabinet minister and arch Eurosceptic claims his rights to privacy infringed by inquiry into lobbying

www.theguardian.com

 

[nicko31]

You couldn't make it up:

Eurosceptic former MP Owen Paterson takes UK government to European court of human rights – as it happened

Former Tory cabinet minister and arch Eurosceptic claims his rights to privacy infringed by inquiry into lobbying

www.theguardian.com

It took Owen a while because he thought he only got access as an EU member.

 

[nicko31]

At last... a sensible conversation about the iniquities of Brexit

That was a pretty pragmatic discussion. Take guts to admit his decision was driven by historic inner prejudices.

 

[Randy McNob]

Taking back control

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yeah, there has been pretty much no good news of Brexit benefits.


And no prospect of there being any. No indications at all.

So the country needs to step back, air and echo the problems, and encourage visionary! politicians to step up and fix the issues.

Unfortunately there is a large swathe of 'middle England' who were never bothered about the EU, not in favour of leaving, never persuaded by all the (false) promises, who voted remain, and yet are now in the 'the nation decided and now we must move on' camp.

A strange, hesitant, trusting mass of fools, who accept that the referendum was fair and binding and, like death, something that cannot be undone.

Only when they become receptive to the idea that we must create a 'single market type trade deal with the EU' will there be any movement over Brexit. Such a deal is absolutely anathema to the ERG, and any government that pursues it will be accused of 'betraying the will of the people'.

One can understand why Starmer is keeping his powder dry. He is not yet PM and this is not yet his fight. A couple more years of no benefits and continued problems may start to shift the landscape a bit. But all the while that reasonably sensible people are continuing to blame our financial ills on Covid and the war with Ukraine, nothing will change, and any political party that suggests we should probably Do Something will be ridiculed.

 

[rogersix]

Sell a story, tell them about the good stuff, don’t talk about any bad stuff, manage to get away with it and then, after the vote, let them find the truth and what the new rules are. FIFA, Tories, all the bloody same.

exactly the same philosophy

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Taking back control

What a mess.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Unfortunately there is a large swathe of 'middle England' who were never bothered about the EU, not in favour of leaving, never persuaded by all the (false) promises, who voted remain, and yet are now in the 'the nation decided and now we must move on' camp.

A strange, hesitant, trusting mass of fools, who accept that the referendum was fair and binding and, like death, something that cannot be undone.

Only when they become receptive to the idea that we must create a 'single market type trade deal with the EU' will there be any movement over Brexit. Such a deal is absolutely anathema to the ERG, and any government that pursues it will be accused of 'betraying the will of the people'.

One can understand why Starmer is keeping his powder dry. He is not yet PM and this is not yet his fight. A couple more years of no benefits and continued problems may start to shift the landscape a bit. But all the while that reasonably sensible people are continuing to blame our financial ills on Covid and the war with Ukraine, nothing will change, and any political party that suggests we should probably Do Something will be ridiculed.

I believe we are only just starting to see the 'cost of living' crisis seriously impacting with Electricity and Gas going up less than a month ago, raging inflation showing no sign of lessening and what some experts have described as 'our longest and deepest recession' just beginning. Add in house prices falling, negative equity and repossessions and it is going to get seriously bad over the next couple of years.

The financial cost of Covid is proportionally disappearing (already less than half that of Brexit and getting relatively smaller by the hour). Hopefully a positive outcome to Ukraine, and the underlying economic situations of all nations will become clearer.

And we haven't even been out of the EU's single market for two years yet and the opinion polls are already showing the majority of people thinking Brexit was a mistake

Another 2 years of a hugely worsening situation may make that 'strange, hesitant, trusting mass of fools' (I, of course wouldn't use that terminology ) think again that maybe, just maybe, something really does need to be done because Britain will look very different in 2024

Just to be clear, I'm not talking Sunlit Uplands

 

[sparkie]

Unfortunately there is a large swathe of 'middle England' who were never bothered about the EU, not in favour of leaving, never persuaded by all the (false) promises, who voted remain, and yet are now in the 'the nation decided and now we must move on' camp.

A strange, hesitant, trusting mass of fools, who accept that the referendum was fair and binding and, like death, something that cannot be undone.

Only when they become receptive to the idea that we must create a 'single market type trade deal with the EU' will there be any movement over Brexit. Such a deal is absolutely anathema to the ERG, and any government that pursues it will be accused of 'betraying the will of the people'.

One can understand why Starmer is keeping his powder dry. He is not yet PM and this is not yet his fight. A couple more years of no benefits and continued problems may start to shift the landscape a bit. But all the while that reasonably sensible people are continuing to blame our financial ills on Covid and the war with Ukraine, nothing will change, and any political party that suggests we should probably Do Something will be ridiculed.

The rigmarole of ETIAS waivers kicking in in Nov 2023, roaming charges, and the slow, slow lane at airports should cause a drip drip drip of grumbling.

Hopefully the little annoyances will mount up and one day soon a general epiphany will break out that we need the solutions and the visionaries to deliver them.

 

[rogersix]

Yeah, there has been pretty much no good news of Brexit benefits.


And no prospect of there being any. No indications at all.

So the country needs to step back, air and echo the problems, and encourage visionary! politicians to step up and fix the issues.

starmer can't do the obvious thing until the hard of learning realise what they've done. so 2028/9 is the earliest any manifesto will mention rejoining, so 2030 we'll be in the single market and customs union. it's gonna be a long wait, and a very expensive fubar, ah well, c'est la vie!

 

[Blues Guitarist]

What a mess.

The UK Government is not - and never was - interested in controlling immigration. As an EU member the UK failed to take action it could have to reduce immigration. Brexit has got rid of EU citizens that were staffing our hospitals and paying tax, but immigration continues to grow.

 

[jcdenton08]

The UK Government is not - and never was - interested in controlling immigration. As an EU member the UK failed to take action it could have to reduce immigration. Brexit has got rid of EU citizens that were staffing our hospitals and paying tax, but immigration continues to grow.

Well, pre 1997 it was.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The financial cost of Covid is proportionally disappearing (already less than half that of Brexit and getting relatively smaller by the hour). Hopefully a positive outcome to Ukraine, and the underlying economic situations of all nations will become clearer.

Have you got links for that? The reason I ask is that covid costs appear to be around the £400 billion mark, while total exports to the EU were £293 billion in 2019, so what you're saying is that the cost of Brexit is something like 3 times the total exports pre-Brexit. That seems impossible. So if you have a link, I would like to see how the figures are worked out.

COVID-19 cost tracker - National Audit Office (NAO) overview

Our interactive tool brings together data from across the UK government on its costs in response to the pandemic.

www.nao.org.uk

 

[Blues Guitarist]

Well, pre 1997 it was.

What action did the Government take to curtail immigration from the EU? (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely interested to know)

 

[rogersix]

would you like a straw with that?

Have you got links for that? The reason I ask is that covid costs appear to be around the £400 billion mark, while total exports to the EU were £293 billion in 2019, so what you're saying is that the cost of Brexit is something like 3 times the total exports pre-Brexit. That seems impossible. So if you have a link, I would like to see how the figures are worked out.

COVID-19 cost tracker - National Audit Office (NAO) overview

Our interactive tool brings together data from across the UK government on its costs in response to the pandemic.

www.nao.org.uk

 

[dsr-burnley]

The rigmarole of ETIAS waivers kicking in in Nov 2023, roaming charges, and the slow, slow lane at airports should cause a drip drip drip of grumbling.

Hopefully the little annoyances will mount up and one day soon a general epiphany will break out that we need the solutions and the visionaries to deliver them.

I doubt that. Are there any massed ranks of people demanding political union with the USA because of ESTAs, queues at airports, and more expensive mobile phones?

You'll probably find more grumbling is directed at the people who are charging the money and failing to work the customs offices. To you, it's self evident that if the EU puts in customs barriers, we must join the EU; to some people, the EU's barriers are a knock against the EU, not against the UK.

And for the record, I don't see it as an annoyance that I don't have to pay extra for my mobile phone to subsidize those who use theirs abroad.

 

[jcdenton08]

What action did the Government take to curtail immigration from the EU? (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely interested to know)

Oh, none whatsoever. They just pushed Brexit as “the alternative”. I’m just saying mass immigration was a Blairite policy, the numbers skyrocket thereafter. Not making a point either way, just a statement of fact.

 

[rogersix]

Oh, none whatsoever. They just pushed Brexit as “the alternative”. I’m just saying mass immigration was a Blairite policy, the numbers skyrocket thereafter. Not making a point either way, just a statement of fact.

The quicker a economy expands, the more workers it requires