[Politics] Brexit

[dingodan]

I can only vote for my local MP so I have no say in what any party executive proposes as policy. I can email my local MP & ask them not to vote or to vote for a particular legislation, but they are subject to party whips.
I can also email my MEPs in the same way.

Your MP can propose legislation.

/Conversation.

 

[The Clamp]

I swear pretty much everyone is bullshitting everyone in this debate, just to try to win the argument.

I want lawmakers elected by the people who live under the laws they make.

I look forward to hearing someone argue that there is anything wrong with wanting that, or finding that principled undermined in EU membership.

You’re handing out advice on listening to people?

Self awareness is not really your strong suit, is it.

 

[daveinplzen]

I swear pretty much everyone is bullshitting everyone in this debate, just to try to win the argument.

I want lawmakers elected by the people who live under the laws they make.

I look forward to hearing someone argue that there is anything wrong with wanting that, or anything incorrect about finding that principle undermined by EU membership.

What laws do you object to?

 

[dingodan]

What laws do you object to?

Third time in 24 hours.

The principle is what is important. I have explained this so many times on here, but it never matters. But Ok, I want to be constructive so I'll do it again, but I have a feeling in 10-15 pages time it won't matter and I'll be asked again to explain myself.

The EU could have only 100% laws which I personally agree with. But that doesn't make it Ok that laws are not made by people I (or you) have the power to elect or remove. An EU which has laws I 100% agree with today, may have laws I don't agree with (or you don't agree with) tomorrow. Who makes the law is more important than what the law currently is.

I don't know what your personal politics are, but I want you to be able, if you elect a government, to determine what the laws in this country are, even if I don't personally agree with them. The point is that if the laws are not what you feel they should be, or what I feel they should be, we can debate, we can campaign, we can elect and through that we can decide. That is what I want. It is short sighted to say that the current laws of the EU are good and the current laws of the UK Government are bad. Tomorrow the UK Government might be your prefered choice, and the EU might be under the direction of people with whom you don't agree. Inside the EU you won't be able to change the laws made by people who don't share your values, even if you have the UK government of your choice.

It's not about this or that law, and it shouldn't be about the makeup of the current EU or UK governments. It is only about whether our elected officials decide our laws or not. And it is important that they do.

 

[birthofanorange]

What laws do you object to?

That's been asked many times, to many Leavers. Don't hold your breath for any sensible answers.

 

[The Clamp]

Third time in 24 hours.

You could do us all a favour and say you don’t know.

We all know you’re talking utter bobbins anyway. Put yourself out of your misery and admit, you do not have a Scooby what you’re talking about.

 

[dingodan]

You’re handing out advice on listening to people?

Self awareness is not really your strong suit, is it.

I listen to people. I fully understand why people want to remain in the EU. Even though they actually rarely make that case on here.

I'm always the one to say, "I understand your point of view, this is where you are coming from, I get it. Here is why I disagree".

In response I always get, "I don't understand your point of view at all, I have no idea where you are coming from. You must be an idiot/crazy/racist etc".

I know how to listen, and I know that I am in a minority on this thread. I sincerely hope that changes, but so far, in three years, it hasn't.

(For an example, please see the post above this one, ironically it's from you).

 

[birthofanorange]

You could do us all a favour and say you don’t know.

We all know you’re talking utter bobbins anyway. Put yourself out of your misery and admit, you do not have a Scooby what you’re talking about.

It's mostly faux outrage at something intangible that has had zero effect on most of their lives, until the likes of Farridge and his ilk told them so. Feeble, really.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

That's fair, but he has been enjoying a good lead, and that's before a) he has earned massive props for doing the "undoable" by getting the WA reopened, getting rid of the backstop, and agreeing a deal with the EU with speed, grace and goodwill on both sides, b) He approached the Benn Bill in the right manner to obey the law and also retain his dignity, and c) his GE opponents have today shown themselves to be willing to extend this farce even more, which I think the electorate won't feel like thanking them for.

By reopen, you mean asking them to offer what they had already had offered?

If we extend it plays into the hands of the brexiteers what ever the reason why

 

[The Clamp]

I listen to people. I fully understand why people want to remain in the EU. Even though they actually rarely make that case on here.

I'm always the one to say, "I understand your point of view, this is where you are coming from, I get it. Here is why I disagree".

In response I always get, "I don't understand your point of view at all, I have no idea where you are coming from. You must be an idiot/crazy/racist etc".

I know how to listen, and I know that I am in a minority on this thread. I sincerely hope that changes, but so far, in three years, it hasn't.

That reads like an intro tape for an The Apprentice hopeful. And we all know how the ones who give it all that come off in the end

You don’t listen at all. At all. Saying you do over and over again doesn’t make it so.

You just seem to be cutting and pasting vague non answers from your previous posts.

 

[dingodan]

That's been asked many times, to many Leavers. Don't hold your breath for any sensible answers.

Fourth time in 24 hours.

The principle is what is important. I have explained this so many times on here, but it never matters. But Ok, I want to be constructive so I'll do it again, but I have a feeling in 10-15 pages time it won't matter and I'll be asked again to explain myself.

The EU could have only 100% laws which I personally agree with. But that doesn't make it Ok that laws are not made by people I (or you) have the power to elect or remove. An EU which has laws I 100% agree with today, may have laws I don't agree with (or you don't agree with) tomorrow. Who makes the law is more important than what the law currently is.

I don't know what your personal politics are, but I want you to be able, if you elect a government, to determine what the laws in this country are, even if I don't personally agree with them. The point is that if the laws are not what you feel they should be, or what I feel they should be, we can debate, we can campaign, we can elect and through that we can decide. That is what I want. It is short sighted to say that the current laws of the EU are good and the current laws of the UK Government are bad. Tomorrow the UK Government might be your prefered choice, and the EU might be under the direction of people with whom you don't agree. Inside the EU you won't be able to change the laws made by people who don't share your values, even if you have the UK government of your choice.

It's not about this or that law, and it shouldn't be about the makeup of the current EU or UK governments. It is only about whether our elected officials decide our laws or not. And it is important that they do.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Your MP can propose legislation.

/Conversation.

As a backbencher only via a Private Members Bill.

 

[birthofanorange]

That reads like an intro tape for an The Apprentice hopeful. And we all know how the ones who give it all that come off in the end

You don’t listen at all. At all. Saying you do over and over again doesn’t make it so.

You just seem to be cutting and pasting vague non answers from your previous posts.

Add that to someone who thinks that Boris "retained his dignity" and you get O.

 

[The Clamp]

Fourth time in 24 hours.

So, behind all the waffle and windy pie, what you are saying is;

I don’t know what laws I don’t like but I know I don’t want them made by foreigners.

Gotcha.

 

[dingodan]

So, behind all the waffle and windy pie, what you are saying is;

I don’t know what laws I don’t like but I know I don’t want them made by foreigners.

Gotcha.

You are not capable of hearing an opposing view are you.

I'll highlight the bits you missed.

The principle is what is important. I have explained this so many times on here, but it never matters. But Ok, I want to be constructive so I'll do it again, but I have a feeling in 10-15 pages time it won't matter and I'll be asked again to explain myself.

The EU could have only 100% laws which I personally agree with. But that doesn't make it Ok that laws are not made by people I (or you) have the power to elect or remove. An EU which has laws I 100% agree with today, may have laws I don't agree with (or you don't agree with) tomorrow. Who makes the law is more important than what the law currently is.

I don't know what your personal politics are, but I want you to be able, if you elect a government, to determine what the laws in this country are, even if I don't personally agree with them. The point is that if the laws are not what you feel they should be, or what I feel they should be, we can debate, we can campaign, we can elect and through that we can decide. That is what I want. It is short sighted to say that the current laws of the EU are good and the current laws of the UK Government are bad. Tomorrow the UK Government might be your prefered choice, and the EU might be under the direction of people with whom you don't agree. Inside the EU you won't be able to change the laws made by people who don't share your values, even if you have the UK government of your choice.

It's not about this or that law, and it shouldn't be about the makeup of the current EU or UK governments. It is only about whether our elected officials decide our laws or not. And it is important that they do.

Keep pretending that you don't understand my point.

All you do is help make my other point about your being unable to listen to and hear the point of view of other people.

My post above was a sincere attempt to share my view, which was asked for, infact it was demanded (multiple times).

The response? Ignore what I said and imply that I am racist.

 

[BensGrandad]

If I was in Boris shoes I would be on the phone to Merkel and Macron plus a couple of others and ask for their assurance that they will vote against an extension and it made known that will happen, and if so I would suggest that I put the deal back to parliament on Tuesday. It will then be take this deal or no deal and so will probably win the day.

 

[The Clamp]

You are not capable of hearing an opposing view are you.

I'll highlight the bits you missed.



Keep pretending that you don't understand my point.

All you do is help make my other point about your being unable to listen and hear the point of view of other people.

My post above was a sincere attempt to share my view, which was asked for, infact it was demanded (multiple times).

The response? Ignore what I said and imply that I am racist.

Your mistake is assuming nobody understands you. We do. We really do.
You don’t care about the specific laws as long as they are generated in Westminster and not Brussels. It’s all about the principle of it. I get it.
That’s a ****ing ludicrous viewpoint and marks you out as somebody who will cut off their nose to spite his face.

You would rather a law generated in Parliament that removes parental leave in the workplace over a law that guarantees parental leave, generated in Brussels.


That’s why governing by principal alone is a hiding to nowhere.

 

[birthofanorange]

You are not capable of hearing an opposing view are you.

I'll highlight the bits you missed.



Keep pretending that you don't understand my point.

All you do is help make my other point about your being unable to listen to and hear the point of view of other people.

My post above was a sincere attempt to share my view, which was asked for, infact it was demanded (multiple times).

The response? Ignore what I said and imply that I am racist.

So, it really is (for you) all about Laws being made (that you don't seem affected by) being made by non-British people, most of which are 'good' Laws and we don't even have to follow all of them?

For that you would choose to weaken this country as a whole, financially and culturally? How very patriotic of you.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1185634676859441152?s=20


They just can’t help lying, can they.
How did he think he’d get away with it, with Starma sitting right in front of him?
Baffling.

Labour would be in a much better place if KS was leader

 

[birthofanorange]

If I was in Boris shoes I would be on the phone to Merkel and Macron plus a couple of others and ask for their assurance that they will vote against an extension and it made known that will happen, and if so I would suggest that I put the deal back to parliament on Tuesday. It will then be take this deal or no deal and so will probably win the day.

To be fair, you could probably replace Bojo and nobody would notice any difference.