[Politics] Brexit

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Brexit is a convenient rack on which to place a hat, were the coal mines struggling right now in the UK as in the 80s, I'm sure Nige would have been the cause.

Irony alert: the EU has acted in pretty much the same way for its critics for many years?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Bore off Dave as if the country will be in the doldrums for ever, history tells us that isn't the case ,I mean how did we ever survive before joining the common agricultural policy,thanks for project fear anyway So glad you've got the Breakdown of the EU to look forward to in years to come
Regards
DR

National Farmers Union opinion of the no deal brexit you advocate.
https://news.sky.com/story/no-deal-brexit-would-be-catastrophic-farmers-warn-11684345
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...d-unable-export-food-eu-event-no-deal-brexit/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ay-deal-tariffs-michael-gove-eu-a8720991.html

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Brexit is a convenient rack on which to place a hat, were the coal mines struggling right now in the UK as in the 80s, I'm sure Nige would have been the cause.

Harold Wilson closed more coal mines in the 60s, than were closed in the 80s.

 

[Baldseagull]

I don't think that everything EU is bad. But I certainly don't think the EU does anything to enhance our sovereignty. I could list some 'bad' laws or policies but what's the point? The kind of EU that the enthusiasts want, is going to draw more and more power centrally. The EU, for good and for bad, does nothing but reduce self rule.

One way it has enhanced our sovereignty is on Trade. The UK wanted a single market across Europe, working with the other members, we got it. In negotiating deals with other countries, negotiating as the EU makes a huge market with greater appeal, there is the downside of the EU having more areas of industry and agriculture to consider and therefore it is a longer process, but ultimately the EU will secure better trade deals than the UK alone could.
There is a problem for theatre lighting on the horizon, https://www.wired.co.uk/article/theatre-lights-eu-save-stage-lighting-led the EU has legislated about the use of efficient lights, previously Theatre Lamps were exempt, in the new code they are not. Now the UK could adopt a different stance, but manufacturers will not be building different lamps and replacement parts for the relatively small UK market, and if they do, they will be at higher cost. As we are still members, we are able to exert some influence on making a change to the regs, as non members, it is likely that UK has to live with the result.
There is no area that we just get told what is what, we always have input, and very rarely, we really disagree and object, the most recent objection and vote against we made was on a law to improve air quality, we argued that the scientific method used to determine what should be considered a safe level of particulates was flawed and as such the level was too low. Nothing to do with us having a lot of diesel Something to be proud of the UK for there. This will of course be counted in the statistic the Brexiters like to use of how much more than the others Britain is on the losing side, there are a number of cases where what the UK Government has objected to would be unlikely to be objected to by the UK public, when we talk about our sovereignty, we should not assume that the UK Government will always make better choices for us than the EU, but that is slightly off topic.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Harold Wilson closed more coal mines in the 60s, than were closed in the 80s.

So not Nige then

 

[nicko31]

National Farmers Union opinion of the no deal brexit you advocate.
https://news.sky.com/story/no-deal-brexit-would-be-catastrophic-farmers-warn-11684345
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...d-unable-export-food-eu-event-no-deal-brexit/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ay-deal-tariffs-michael-gove-eu-a8720991.html

All in line with Patrick Minford's (Mogg's top economist) predictions, bye, bye British farming. Countryside changed forever...

 

[Gwylan]

National Farmers Union opinion of the no deal brexit you advocate.
https://news.sky.com/story/no-deal-brexit-would-be-catastrophic-farmers-warn-11684345
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...d-unable-export-food-eu-event-no-deal-brexit/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ay-deal-tariffs-michael-gove-eu-a8720991.html

Farmers' opposition is pretty meaningless though. Agriculture is not a big part of the UK economy and if no deal is popular with the electorate, farmers' concerns are going to be sidelined.

Besides, farmers are overwhelmingly Tory voters, there's no reason to give them special favours as they always vote Conservative. It's a bit like train commuters in the south-east, there's no reason to improve services as the government know that 90% of them will still vote Tory.

Governments are always more concerned about marginal seats and swing voters than their solid bloc of supporters (who are going to vote for them anyway).

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

National Farmers Union opinion of the no deal brexit you advocate.
https://news.sky.com/story/no-deal-brexit-would-be-catastrophic-farmers-warn-11684345
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...d-unable-export-food-eu-event-no-deal-brexit/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ay-deal-tariffs-michael-gove-eu-a8720991.html

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but see how it maps out when We leave on or before 31st October 2019
regards
DR

 

[Mellotron]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/boris-johnson-trial-brexit-court-lying-prosecution-nhs-vote-leave-a8934451.html?fbclid=IwAR1LSNOhUFAxKUwKYoWz8YOXGfIIAuF2L0kXFPvIDBSmwtyfomaoJ9U6-6w

BREAKING NEWS - Boris Johnston WILL stand trial for Brexit lies.

What delicious timing. Yet another body blow for Brexit also.

 

[Baldseagull]

Blair leading us into a lie to have a war, yes we can go on and on and on about it. It's ever decreasing circles.

A democratic vote was taken, remain lost. What part of that do remainers not get? All I see is constant whining and droning from the losing part of the electorate. The referendum was done, the exits won. That can be summed up in one post, not 8794 pages. That, believe it or not, is how democracy works, no really it is.

Surely you see that what leave means today was never suggested as the outcome by leave advocates at the time? I think it is undemocratic to ask people to vote yes or no, and then change what you are saying yes or no to.

 

[CHAPPERS]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/boris-johnson-trial-brexit-court-lying-prosecution-nhs-vote-leave-a8934451.html?fbclid=IwAR1LSNOhUFAxKUwKYoWz8YOXGfIIAuF2L0kXFPvIDBSmwtyfomaoJ9U6-6w

BREAKING NEWS - Boris Johnston to stand trial for Brexit lies.

What delicious timing. Yet another body blow for Brexit also.

Wow. I must say I'm quite surprised this got to court. Good stuff.

 

[daveinplzen]

Bore off Dave as if the country will be in the doldrums for ever, history tells us that isn't the case ,I mean how did we ever survive before joining the common agricultural policy,thanks for project fear anyway So glad you've got the Breakdown of the EU to look forward to in years to come
Regards
DR

More chance of the Union breaking down due to nitwits.

 

[nicko31]

Wow. I must say I'm quite surprised this got to court. Good stuff.

Must admit I chucked in a tenner to Marcus Ball's private prosecution crowd fund but never thought it would go anywhere...

 

[Baldseagull]

That is what the big issue is. Without dealing with your points individually, you know as well as I do that chucking them en mass under the 'Brexit caused this' umbrella is both cheap and factually incorrect. The remain believers would have more credibility were they to accept the result graciously and try to make the best for the future, rather than the 'my dog died because of Brexit' approach.

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

Trying to make the best for the future, is trying to avoid a No Deal Brexit.

 

[Baldseagull]

Its no consolation if you'll soon be losing your job at Honda and there is no new opportunities at Nissan because the next X-Trail model is being made elsewhere.

Not a total disaster, under freedom of movement you can look for work at a car plant in France or Spain.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Must admit I chucked in a tenner to Marcus Ball's private prosecution crowd fund but never thought it would go anywhere...

Some interesting tweets on the guardian blog already saying it might actually help him, especially in a GE.

Not sure I quite agree if he is found guilty, though.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Some interesting tweets on the guardian blog already saying it might actually help him, especially in a GE.

Not sure I quite agree if he is found guilty, though.

So which one of the right wing rags will lead with a picture of Ball tomorrow calling him a traitor and leaking as many personal details as they can get away with?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

One way it has enhanced our sovereignty is on Trade. The UK wanted a single market across Europe, working with the other members, we got it. In negotiating deals with other countries, negotiating as the EU makes a huge market with greater appeal, there is the downside of the EU having more areas of industry and agriculture to consider and therefore it is a longer process, but ultimately the EU will secure better trade deals than the UK alone could.
There is a problem for theatre lighting on the horizon, https://www.wired.co.uk/article/theatre-lights-eu-save-stage-lighting-led the EU has legislated about the use of efficient lights, previously Theatre Lamps were exempt, in the new code they are not. Now the UK could adopt a different stance, but manufacturers will not be building different lamps and replacement parts for the relatively small UK market, and if they do, they will be at higher cost. As we are still members, we are able to exert some influence on making a change to the regs, as non members, it is likely that UK has to live with the result.
There is no area that we just get told what is what, we always have input, and very rarely, we really disagree and object, the most recent objection and vote against we made was on a law to improve air quality, we argued that the scientific method used to determine what should be considered a safe level of particulates was flawed and as such the level was too low. Nothing to do with us having a lot of diesel Something to be proud of the UK for there. This will of course be counted in the statistic the Brexiters like to use of how much more than the others Britain is on the losing side, there are a number of cases where what the UK Government has objected to would be unlikely to be objected to by the UK public, when we talk about our sovereignty, we should not assume that the UK Government will always make better choices for us than the EU, but that is slightly off topic.

You make your case well and clearly. On the subject of theater lights, suppose we do eventually get brexit, why can't we source lights elsewhere or make our own? Not all countries are subject to the EU.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Some interesting tweets on the guardian blog already saying it might actually help him, especially in a GE.

Not sure I quite agree if he is found guilty, though.

I think that could be right if he is cleared or things appear to be less than clear cut. Politics has a perverse reward system sometimes.

 

[nicko31]

Some interesting tweets on the guardian blog already saying it might actually help him, especially in a GE.

Not sure I quite agree if he is found guilty, though.

Aside of the outcome of this, had sight of commercial contracts on his patch. Due to NDA I could never discuss anything, but what can be said is public money was used in vanity projects to try and boost his personal profile which could have been delivered for a lot less money. It echoes of wastage elsewhere, like the ill fated garden bridge...

The countries fate lies in the hand of about 100k middle class 55+ mostly male voters. A PM has never before been selected like this, BJ still looks likely