[Politics] Brexit

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Hi. It's time for this month's standard "Mejona asks a basic brexit question as he is confused again".

Please can someone simply reply if I've understood this rightly or wrongly....

Lots of MPs said "WE DON'T LIKE YOUR DEAL. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT DECISION FOR THE COUNTRY. WE SIMPLY CAN'T BACK IT".

Theresa then says "If you back it, I'll leave"

And now lots of MP's WILL vote for the deal which they originally said they didn't feel was the right one for the country because it will mean she leaves?

Again, I'm a brexit THICKO so happy to be informed where I've got this wrong as it does seem ridiculous if that was the case. I must be wrong.

Brexit thicko? No my friend, you've nailed it.

T May: "I know my deal is crap. But as PM, I'm even more crap than my deal. So vote for my crap deal and you get rid of a really crap PM." Genius! In a crap sort of way.

 

[Baldseagull]

i assume the theory is that the make up of parliament and their votes yesturday, looks like we need a new set of MPs to resolve the impasse. but its doesnt, because 80-90% of the same MPs will be returned. maybe Labour deselections will make significant change to the votes? of course not.

a GE does not resolve anything, both main parties currently support leaving, just in different guises. so unless remainers elect 300+ Liberals, the offical policy of any new government will be to leave. despite most of the MPs personally being against that policy.

Possibility of a new party if we are still in A50 negotiations, less likely if we are in the withdrawal period but still possible depending on the direction of the two main parties. If there is not and Liberals and Greens are offering a revokation if we have not left, I think tactical voting for Labour to avoid Tory or vice versa may be less common, especially if Liberals and Greens make the point that the Government dismissed revokation as 85% of people voted for a party that had taking Britain out as a manifesto pledge. The votes that UKIP peeled away from the main two were significant pre Brexit, I think the votes that Remainers could place elsewhere if neither main party is offering even a chance to stop Brexit, such as a referendum, would be more significant now.

 

[vegster]

I'm going to resign if my deal goes through...


Knowing her deal isn't going to go through.

It was reported by the BBC last night that several MP's who were holding out approached her to say they would now support her deal after hearing her suicide note. Incredibly shallow or what ?

 

[Stat Brother]

Hi. It's time for this month's standard "Mejona asks a basic brexit question as he is confused again".

Please can someone simply reply if I've understood this rightly or wrongly....

Lots of MPs said "WE DON'T LIKE YOUR DEAL. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT DECISION FOR THE COUNTRY. WE SIMPLY CAN'T BACK IT".

Theresa then says "If you back it, I'll leave"

And now lots of MP's WILL vote for the deal which they originally said they didn't feel was the right one for the country because it will mean she leaves?

Again, I'm a brexit THICKO so happy to be informed where I've got this wrong as it does seem ridiculous if that was the case. I must be wrong.

That'll do.

Think of it as basically:-

"If you back my deal you might become Prime Minister".

"Deal"

Yet the Brexiteers still think this as about them, taking back control, Sovereign rights, etc.

and folk still wonder why the Crown Prince of Botswana bothers to email telling people they have won $87,000,000 all they have to do is send £5,000 back to him for admin charges.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It was reported by the BBC last night that several MP's who were holding out approached her to say they would now support her deal after hearing her suicide note. Incredibly shallow or what ?

It's all about the Tory Party. Always has been, will continue to be. They're not interested in anything else but their party and the direction it will go in.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Brexit thicko? No my friend, you've nailed it.

T May: "I know my deal is crap. But as PM, I'm even more crap than my deal. So vote for my crap deal and you get rid of a really crap PM." Genius! In a crap sort of way.

So MP's, who KNOW this is the wrong deal for their COUNTRY will back it because it gets rid of ONE PERSON?

That's not their job.....

I'm quite upset that I understood it correctly. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[A1X]

So to clarify, Boris and Jacob have now changed their minds and so want to be able to vote in a different way as the evidence has changed. But both also believe the British people should not be allowed the opportunity to do the same.

 

[Baldseagull]

Last night CU lost by 7, People's Vote by 27. BBC this morning incapable of reporting this, still scared of the government

Lets have a final vote on May's deal and get it out the way, we should give one last chance for the Brexiteers. Do they want their Brexit or not?

It doesn't get it out of the way though really, it just means the fighting over how to handle the next phase, will take place whilst in that phase rather than before we go into that phase, like we have just done for the last phase. Most agree starting negotiations without some consensus on where we were heading was a bad idea, we would be doing that again as the PD is so vague, TM would be off, and we would see a Tory leadership contest between a bunch of wholly unsuitable contenders. Personally I think it creates greater uncertainty than now, and once we go into the next phase there is no turning back, we are out.

 

[Is it PotG?]

So to clarify, Boris and Jacob have now changed their minds and so want to be able to vote in a different way as the evidence has changed. But both also believe the British people should not be allowed the opportunity to do the same.

I thought they always wanted to leave, as per the vote?

 

[Simster]

Ken Clarke the best leader of the Conservative Party they never had. If there are red Tories in Labour, Clarke is blue Labour in the Conservatives. Never quite elected as leader because there are frankly too many loons in the Conservative Party to have allowed a liberal moderate like Clarke to lead. They chose Ian Duncan Smith instead. Morons. You only had to listen to Rees Mogg yesterday try to put down Nick Boles by referring to him being wrong because he was an Old Wykehamist compared to his status as Old Etonian to realise how detached some of the Tory party are.

I've been watching far too much BBC Parliament than is healthy. I have it on while I'm working listening to most of the debates. I'm unable to relate to many of the Tory MPs. I couldn't imagine having a conversation or even remotely any common ground with them. So when the odd one speaks and sounds reasonable, they stick out like a beacon surrounded by a sea of smug rocks only interested in their next wreck.

Personally, if we are to leave then I'd rather trust a motion put forward by Ken Clarke, than anything the likes the ERG are pushing for. I've not seen one of them speak that have remotely engaged me in anyway. Even Arlene Foster has made more sense defending her position, even though I have nothing but contempt for the women.

You then get the likes of Sir Bill Cash speak to BBC, and the audacity of the man is breath taking, criticising the house for intransigence when he continually votes down his own government, speaking for the people, the boarding school man of privilege, born into his wealth, caught claiming £15k in expenses he had to pay back. Detestable man, speaking for the 'people', do **** off.

Much of that I agree with, especially the bit about watching the debates while at work. One thing I'll say is that I think you're being harsh on Foster. I did have contempt for her propping up the Tory government BUT I am beginning to admire her and her party. Their position has been 100% consistent from day one and they have stuck by it. They are a nominally pro-Brexit party but not at any cost and will defend the union above all else. I don't like the fact that the DUP were allowed to be bribed by this dreadful government - it is immensely damaging having only one side of that divide being listened to by our government. However, that is merely yet another Tory failure. I'll only hold them in contempt if they back a deal that puts the Good Friday Agreement at risk.

Anyway, the consistency on their Brexit position displayed by the DUP is to be respected and admired - and is in stark contrast to the duplicitous, lying scum in the Conservatives who demonstrably bend with the wind to serve their own interests. Boris Johnson is absolutely brazen with it. He is truly a dreadful human being who belongs in the gutter along with Piers Morgan, John Terry and that sort of celebrity ilk. And now it seems Jacob Rees-Mogg will happily push the country in front of the bus by backing this shit damaging deal only to serve his own interests. The Tories are just infected by too many untrustworthy, self-serving absolute scum who do the rank and file party membership a gross disservice.

 

[Simster]

So MP's, who KNOW this is the wrong deal for their COUNTRY will back it because it gets rid of ONE PERSON?

That's not their job.....

I'm quite upset that I understood it correctly. Thanks for clarifying.

Don't forget, the Liberal Democrats have been absolutely decimated for choosing to share power with this lot (and with hindsight, seemingly curbing a good deal of their excesses). Meanwhile, key Conservative figures have lied and continue to manoeuvre their way into positions of power at great expense to the country. It is absolutely shameful. And yet, despite this, you wouldn't put your mortgage on the Tories losing power if a GE was called tomorrow.

It is good to know the great British public have got their priorities right.

 

[Baldseagull]

I guess the big variable (or actually one of about 3 million variables) over the next two days is 'can May offer anything to the DUP to get them on board?' If so then - possibly - her deal has legs and might limp across the line. But they (the DUP) are nothing if not implacable: the back-stop is their deal breaker and there's no way that May can remove it. What would it take to get the DUP on-side at this stage? Answer directly to tmay@disasterlegacy.gov

She could try ££££ directly into their accounts and not for the region this time, but Aaron Banks may have beaten her to financially incentivised voting.

 

[Weststander]

You mean we might actually get a half decent government? I'd be all for a coalition rather than the useless shower of utter ***** we currently have in charge.

Whatever happens we need rid of the current government as they are the worst in my living memory. On every level.

I’m fine with that. My only concern that the SNP would have Corbyn over a barrel, in the same hold the DUP have now. Their circa 40 MP’s (out of 650) being able to squeeze even more out of London, when the Barnett Formula already enriches Scotland disproportionately. Plus they’ll insist on an independence referendum ... which would be ironic as the SNP have spent the last 3 years going large on political unions.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Much of that I agree with, especially the bit about watching the debates while at work. One thing I'll say is that I think you're being harsh on Foster. I did have contempt for her propping up the Tory government BUT I am beginning to admire her and her party. Their position has been 100% consistent from day one and they have stuck by it. They are a nominally pro-Brexit party but not at any cost and will defend the union above all else. I don't like the fact that the DUP were allowed to be bribed by this dreadful government - it is immensely damaging having only one side of that divide being listened to by our government. However, that is merely yet another Tory failure.

Anyway, the consistency on their Brexit position displayed by the DUP is to be respected and admired - and is in stark contrast to the duplicitous, lying scum in the Conservatives who demonstrably bend with the wind to serve their own interests. Boris Johnson is absolutely brazen with it. He is truly a dreadful human being who belongs in the gutter along with Piers Morgan, John Terry and that sort of celebrity ilk. And now it seems Jacob Rees-Mogg will happily push the country in front of the bus by backing this shit damaging deal only to serve his own interests. The Tories are just infected by too many untrustworthy, self-serving absolute scum who do the rank and file party membership a gross disservice.

Yes, perhaps contempt for the 'other' policies the DUP stand behind, rather than for her, bit harsh. Like you, you cannot criticise the DUP from being bought or not being consistent. They've been against any damage to the Union and have made their views perfectly clear on the matter of this back stop for 2 years. Ignored of course, like every other voice the PM has heard. 'My door is always open, it's my mind that is shut.'

 

[Weststander]

Jeremys time is coming. We look at America and the popular vote was for Bernie Sanders. That cocked up and the people regretted it. I think we can learn from America.

Bernie Sanders would’ve been destroyed at the polls. Anyone seeking social and economic justice in the USA is considered a ‘commie’ by 2/3 of the populace.

 

[Baldseagull]

Hi. It's time for this month's standard "Mejona asks a basic brexit question as he is confused again".

Please can someone simply reply if I've understood this rightly or wrongly....

Lots of MPs said "WE DON'T LIKE YOUR DEAL. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT DECISION FOR THE COUNTRY. WE SIMPLY CAN'T BACK IT".

Theresa then says "If you back it, I'll leave"

And now lots of MP's WILL vote for the deal which they originally said they didn't feel was the right one for the country because it will mean she leaves?

Again, I'm a brexit THICKO so happy to be informed where I've got this wrong as it does seem ridiculous if that was the case. I must be wrong.

Two aspect they were unhappy with, one was the backstop because it means we will be in the customs union indefinitely, the other was the course of further negotiations on trade, which with her gone, they think they can do better

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Two aspect they were unhappy with, one was the backstop because it means we will be in the customs union indefinitely, the other was the course of further negotiations on trade, which with her gone, they think they can do better

Ah ok.

But again, my understanding may be wrong, but Bercow stated the same deal can't be put forward again for a vote unless it has clearly changed.

Believing you can make the changes after she has gone will never happen because she wont be gone...because the deal didn't get through....because it wasn't voted on....because it didn't change enough....because she didn't leave

I'm getting confused again.

 

[nwgull]

Jeremys time is coming. We look at America and the popular vote was for Bernie Sanders. That cocked up and the people regretted it. I think we can learn from America.

Labour won't win a GE under Corbyn. At best he could become PM under a coalition of several parties.

 

[Baldseagull]

Ah ok.

But again, my understanding may be wrong, but Bercow stated the same deal can't be put forward again for a vote unless it has clearly changed.

Believing you can make the changes after she has gone will never happen because she wont be gone...because the deal didn't get through....because it wasn't voted on....because it didn't change enough....because she didn't leave

I'm getting confused again.

If there were the addition of saying it would come to us in a referendum if Parliament approved it before it was enacted, that would be a significant change in the proposition, as would any firming of direction for the trade negotiations in the Political declaration, like Customs Union inclusion. I suspect the commons will give us both, a direction that is clearer and a vote on it, as it will kill a couple of Leave campaign fantasies, and we might prefer to stay in the EU.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I don't think a second referendum will pass in the commons based upon last night. There were too many that voted No and there would not be many more required to vote it down. Most likely to pass is the Customs Union one, so I reckon TM should be on the phone to Barnier asking them to change the political declaration to make the Customs Union in the withdrawal agreement the basis of a permanent solution. Put that back to the commons, get it passed and then get on with it FFS! It won't happen though.