Your post wasn't "rubbish" in it's entirety. I suspect he was responding to this sentence, which is: "The Labour Party isn't an innocent bystander in all this mess, it's almost equally responsible for it."
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Your post wasn't "rubbish" in it's entirety. I suspect he was responding to this sentence, which is: "The Labour Party isn't an innocent bystander in all this mess, it's almost equally responsible for it."
But what could Corbyn have done? He could have opposed Brexit, which would have alienated a lot of Labour support in the north and caused deep splits in the party. But if he had, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to situation because he doesn't have a majority.
He could have proposed a second referendum which may have stopped his MPs leaving but wouldn't have made the slightest difference to the situation because he doesn't have a majority.
Or he could have supported May's deal, which would have permanently split his party and saved parliamentary time, but would have tied him to Brexit so, if it goes horribly wrong, he'd share the blame (and wouldn't get the praise if it turned out to be a success).
Corbyn has done a lot wrong since becoming leader but I don't think the way he handled Brexit was one of them. I'm not sure what else he could have done
Interesting that the narrative here has entirely moved on from 'Is Brexit a complete disaster for the UK?', to 'who is to blame for Brexit being a complete disaster for the UK?'.
I read an article yesterday that detailed how in yougov polling, "Is leaving the EU a bad idea?" has returned a Yes answer for the last 18 straight months, with the latest poll returning the highest majority yet (9 points).
We all know 'the people' no longer want to leave, by a bigger majority than they ever voted otherwise. The politicians know it. The media know it. It is all just a ridiculous, hellish charade.
Seriously, what the actual ****?
I read an article yesterday that detailed how in yougov polling, "Is leaving the EU a bad idea?" has returned a Yes answer for the last 18 straight months, with the latest poll returning the highest majority yet (9 points).
We all know 'the people' no longer want to leave, by a bigger majority than they ever voted otherwise. The politicians know it. The media know it. It is all just a ridiculous, hellish charade.
Seriously, what the actual ****?
So he did nothing.
He 'campaigned' at the 11th hour obviously with one arm behind his back.
He has seemingly sold jobs of his northern heartland in favour of his own power, such as it is.
The Labour Party could have forceably said 'No because of the nature of the majority' instead of waiting till now, when he faces an actual revolt against his power.
If he genuinely wants Brexit for the Labour Party he could have taken a stance that would have made it impossible to be ignored, instead of watching the DUP being paid off.
Does anyone actually believe the country will be in exactly the same situation now, if the Labour Party were a creditable, united opposition party?
If May does indeed rule out No Deal, as some are speculating, today then following the Labour announcement of supporting a referendum yesterday the Independent Group can probably claim they've achieved more in their 10 days of existence than some political parties or groupings have in a century or more. No mean feat.
Which is why the prospect of another referendum so terrifies the Brexiters, and why they're so desperate to avoid one.
I'll keep an eye out for the whole 20 minute feature on LWT, which at the moment 'isn't available in your region' but this is how it ended.
nicko31
Well-known member
Very good, Brexit is a dream so much material. The Last Leg on Channel 4 has been pretty good of late too....
Baker lite
Banned
and we're back to name calling!
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,887
This debate about who is to blame is quite simple
Here are the people responsible
Together with a large number of, at best, naive people who believed that voting to leave would resolve each and every issue that they individually had in their heads at the time.
From the day after the referendum there were only three options
1. Softest of soft Brexits (if we wanted to keep a lot of EU benefits and not create a border in Ireland/NI)
2. 'No deal' (Economic suicide and I said at the time, 2 years would not long enough to implement - never going to happen)
3. Withdraw/Delay Article 50 for a GE or referendum.
Here's a post from over a year and a half ago
I love the arguments on here about the in-fighting in the Tory party, what Jeremy Corbyn would do if he got in etc etc.The situation we are currently in cannot be rescued by Theresa May, Amber Rudd, Jeremy Corbyn, Boris Johnson, Tony Blair coming back from retirement or Maggie Thatcher coming back from beyond.
You may remember Universal Benefits being the Big thing prior to Brexit. As the biggest project the civil service has been running for the last 4 years, they have managed to roll it out to 10% (about 600,000 people) of the required population and it is beset by errors and problems leading to discussion about whether to hold the rollout until these are resolved.
This is the same organisation which is going to rollout all of the changes created by Brexit in the next 18 months (3.5 years for those who believe the implementation period). None of these changes have yet been agreed meaning no work can commence on them. Even a WTO 'no deal' will need to be implemented.
Whatever your political alliances, surely a little common sense will tell you that there are huge issues staring us in the face. The Government (whoever that consists of !) will have to fudge. The timescales which are currently being talked about are ridiculous
And to quote a certain PM 'Nothing has changed'. Where we are now can hardly have come as a surprise to anyone
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Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
It's pleasing that Brexiteers are now commonly referred to as Brexiters.
Less D'Artagnon, more ordinary.
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Less D'Artagnon, more ordinary.
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
lawros left foot
Glory hunting since 1969
The Labour Party could do little in reality to stop it. The traditional Labour voters want one thing, in the main, and the party membership want the opposite, and whatever we may wish it was different, it’s not. Corbyn has had to hold a divided party together, he’s still very popular with the membership, but, disliked and distrusted by a fair few Labour MPs, so he must walk a fine line between the two.
It must also be remembered he has survived two attempts to oust him from the leadership, by the light blue Labour MPs, no mean feat,. To pour equal blame on Labour for this abortion is laughable, and makes me wonder if Corbyn could have followed any course that could have appeased his more rabid critics.
His main task is to keep a divided party together, and form as coherent opposition as possible, and this he has done, to a certain extent.