[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

That's presuming all 27 agree on what the tariffs and customs barriers should be. Big ask, that..........

Indeed it is, but there are the WTO terms if we can't agree, although we would need to join as we are not members in our own right, our membership is tied to the EU. Getting WTO membership, agreements on subsidies and quotas is going to be a difficult job too. I know you guys won't have it, it is all so simple and easy when Farage says it, but it really is not so simple, and it will not be quick.

 

[Baldseagull]

Abuse as much as you want. It weakens you.

Off line now I'll still read your drivel tomorrow and laugh.
G'd night now...

I thought you might appreciate the Farage style of debate.

 

[studio150]

It's simple really. We control our immigration, we don't pay to a club that we don't belong to. Our laws are supreme (even if it means ratifying selected rulings emanating from the EU commission during our membership of the failed EU on the statute books)
Right then, now the red lines are drawn how do you, the EU want to proceed?.. Trade lets start there. If tariffs are instigated it is quids in for us. If we were to be general lets say 10% on goods other than financial services.

How would the consumer be better off with higher prices from the tariffs.
You need to look wider on the impacts.

 

[BigGully]

How would the consumer be better off with higher prices from the tariffs.
You need to look wider on the impacts.

You should also be asking how might tariffs effect those EU's businesses that wish to sell to the British consumer, if as you suspect it will adversely effect those UK consumers.

So logically the EU might wish to consider those many millions employed within the manufacturing plants and factory througout EU cities that rely on a robust UK market and perhaps explain to them why the EU wishes to penalise that business relationship, you seem to sometimes forget that the UK is one of the largest and most productive markets to sell within.

It just doesnt follow that we are negotiating from a position of weakness, some remainers seem too willing to undersell our worth whilst dismissing our strenghths.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

EU hiding behind pages and pages of law, nothing can be changed from inside. They all do very well out of it thank you very much, even Farage who I support, but at least he admits the faults and is not part of this snidey little liberal elistist club who treat us all like fing idiots, and the only reason some of our politicians are so vocal about staying in is because they want to join the gravy train. They don't live on the same planet as some of us.

 

[studio150]

You should also be asking how might tariffs effect those EU's businesses that wish to sell to the British consumer, if as you suspect it will adversely effect those UK consumers.

So logically the EU might wish to consider those many millions employed within the manufacturing plants and factory througout EU cities that rely on a robust UK market and perhaps explain to them why the EU wishes to penalise that business relationship, you seem to sometimes forget that the UK is one of the largest and most productive markets to sell within.

It just doesnt follow that we are negotiating from a position of weakness, some remainers seem too willing to undersell our worth whilst dismissing our strenghths.

So from the SMMT today, car prices to rise by 2-3% due to the weaker pound. This is not just imported cars but also UK manufactured due the importation of parts. But of more interest is the £1500 that would apply if tariffs were applied and if outside of a custom union, that parts will take longer to acquire as well as being more expensive, So that when it comes to repairs vehicles may be sitting idle for sometime waiting for parts to arrive.

Meanwhile EU manufactured vehicles continue to be sold at lower prices throughout the EU and can be repaired far quicker.

Just think how more costly and difficult this would be if we weren't in a position of strength.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

So from the SMMT today, car prices to rise by 2-3% due to the weaker pound. This is not just imported cars but also UK manufactured due the importation of parts. But of more interest is the £1500 that would apply if tariffs were applied and if outside of a custom union, that parts will take longer to acquire as well as being more expensive, So that when it comes to repairs vehicles may be sitting idle for sometime waiting for parts to arrive.

Meanwhile EU manufactured vehicles continue to be sold at lower prices throughout the EU and can be repaired far quicker.

Just think how more costly and difficult this would be if we weren't in a position of strength.

To rise 2-3 percent, so it hasn't even happened yet. Even if it did people would still buy new cars, and there would be deals around on top of that, like manufacturers do now. I just don't buy these reports anymore.

 

[carlzeiss]

Cross border EU security communications don't appear particularly effective .

http://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/ne...ourt-after-hammer-attack-on-officer-1-7151471

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-Gatwick-staff-member-two-police-hammer.html

Why wasn't foreign killer turned away at the UK border? Afghan who beheaded Dutch woman is allowed into Britain... where he assaulted a Gatwick staff member and two police officers with a HAMMER

 

[glasfryn]

Don't worry - Plan A is very simple. We trigger Article 50, and then negotiate trade deals etc. Don't take too much notice of Sir Ivan Rogers attempts to cause further fear and uncertainty. The man's an out and out Europhile, who doesn't want us to leave the EU at all - and thus, like all remoaners, he regards the very idea of leaving the EU as 'muddle headed thinking'.
As a civil servant, is job was to negotiate our departure from the EU - and that was something he obviously didn't want to do at all. So he's gone. Leaving some snide remarks behind. Now we've got a new man in, so hopefully we can get on with Plan A.

hope you are right

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

This is good stuff. Andrea Leadsom addresses an audience of Oxfordshire farmers and has a quick show of hands as to who has confidence in her Department's Brexit strategy. The only person who puts his hand up is a Junior Minister in her department, who, funnily enough, was also a passionate campaigner to leave the EU.

http://news.sky.com/story/andrea-leadsoms-brexit-boast-fails-to-impress-farmers-10718020

 

[BigGully]

So from the SMMT today, car prices to rise by 2-3% due to the weaker pound. This is not just imported cars but also UK manufactured due the importation of parts. But of more interest is the £1500 that would apply if tariffs were applied and if outside of a custom union, that parts will take longer to acquire as well as being more expensive, So that when it comes to repairs vehicles may be sitting idle for sometime waiting for parts to arrive.

Meanwhile EU manufactured vehicles continue to be sold at lower prices throughout the EU and can be repaired far quicker.

Just think how more costly and difficult this would be if we weren't in a position of strength.

You seem to have already concluded the negotiations in your own head and at the same time decided that we as the UK consumer will continue to purchase the same quantities and products but just at a higher price if the conclusion is what you think, therefore only exlusively effecting the UK consumer whilst the EU exporters remain uneffected.

That really isnt how business works, if there is some pricing increases that feed through from any of your adverse scenarios, then the UK consumer will either pay the increased cost, not buy the product/service or switch to another product/service at a more competitive price, no matter where it may come from.

It is in the interest of both the UK and the EU to conclude a deal that might offset any rising costs, there shouldnt be any incentive for increased costs to either UK or EU exporters through any negotiation.

You seem to hold the view it is inevitable for the EU to act in a punitive negotiation with the UK with its subsequent consequence to the UK without lending the same scenario to the EU when if forced to do so we too would implement a retaliatory strategy creating even greater pressure on the EU that currently run a trade surplus by selling to us.

 

[Baldseagull]

You seem to have already concluded the negotiations in your own head and at the same time decided that we as the UK consumer will continue to purchase the same quantities and products but just at a higher price if the conclusion is what you think, therefore only exlusively effecting the UK consumer whilst the EU exporters remain uneffected.

That really isnt how business works, if there is some pricing increases that feed through from any of your adverse scenarios, then it is in the interest of both the UK and the EU to conclude a deal that might offset any rising costs, there shouldnt be any incentive for increased costs to either UK or EU exporters through any negotiation.

You seem to hold the view it is inevitable for the EU to act in a punitive negotiation with the UK with its subsequent consequence to the UK without lending the same scenario to the EU when if forced to do so we too would implement a retaliatory strategy creating even greater pressure on the EU that run a trade surplus by selling to us.

I keep seeing the word punative being used to describe the scenario where the EU does not give us exactly what we want, this is not how it is going to be, but they will protect their members from products that could possibly be produced more cheaply by not having to comply with the same high standards of employment rights for workers, or environmental control.
If we want to agree free trade on foods for example, we would probably have to agree to not subsidise our Farmers beyond the level that the EU subsidises, and if we do not subsidise our Farmers to around the same level that the EU does, we are putting our farmers at a disadvantage, if we try to compete with their more heavily subsidised products.
It is not just within the EU that these sorts of agreement go on, in the WTO, subsidised products like Beef from the UK will usually only be allowed up to a certain level, a quota, if you want to sell more, you need to drop your subsidy and your product becomes expensive. As it is, we actually sell more of our Beef abroad than our individual quota would allow, for the level of subsidy we have. By virtue of having ourselves bundled up with the EU, we get to use some of the quota that other nations do not.

The EU will be hurt by a hardening up of trade between here and there, but it will be hurt more by giving us a free pass, it is not about being punative, it is about being fair, and there are 27 of them who have to agree that the deal is fair, all with differing concerns over differing types of product.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I have ignored the reasons-to-leave findings in the good lord's poll because it simply invited leave-voting participants to choose one of three high-flying and worthy-sounding factors as their reason for voting Out. Pretty crude stuff really but perhaps it impressed those who wanted to be impressed.

It invited them to choose what they considered an important factor in their voting decision even if it wasn't the main reason. Many people state convenient high flying/ worthy sounding reasons .. 'what was best for future generations, save the poor from themselves' etc. Any less crude than basing an opinion on vox pops or chatting to a family member/ friend?

Continuing the theme of only posting stuff that supports our pov ...

Project Fear Brexit predictions were 'flawed and partisan', new study says

Predictions by the Treasury ahead of the Brexit vote have been brought into question by a study which says that leaving the European Union will halve net migration, give British workers a pay rise and help to solve the housing crisis.

The report from the Centre for Business Research at the University of Cambridge examined the possible future scenarios following the referendum decision to leave the EU.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-predictions-flawed-partisan-new-study-says/

 

[portslade seagull]

It invited them to choose what they considered an important factor in their voting decision even if it wasn't the main reason. Many people state convenient high flying/ worthy sounding reasons .. 'what was best for future generations, save the poor from themselves' etc. Any less crude than basing an opinion on vox pops or chatting to a family member/ friend?

Continuing the theme of only posting stuff that supports our pov ...

Project Fear Brexit predictions were 'flawed and partisan', new study says

Predictions by the Treasury ahead of the Brexit vote have been brought into question by a study which says that leaving the European Union will halve net migration, give British workers a pay rise and help to solve the housing crisis.

The report from the Centre for Business Research at the University of Cambridge examined the possible future scenarios following the referendum decision to leave the EU.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-predictions-flawed-partisan-new-study-says/

But scaremongering seems to have become a new hobby for some posters on here. The Treasury report biased. ... never ... its all 100% true according to these doomsayers

 

[BigGully]

The EU will be hurt by a hardening up of trade between here and there, but it will be hurt more by giving us a free pass, it is not about being punative, it is about being fair, and there are 27 of them who have to agree that the deal is fair, all with differing concerns over differing types of product.

Seems a fair reason why the EU will not continue as you know it, its a busted flush, how a burgeoning political project can get to a point where they willingly deliver a level of hardship to their own people on the back of protectionism and political consequence is the very reason why it will soon be on the verge of collapse, either eagerly prompted by the electorate or just an old fashion collapse with real civil unrest.

 

[Soulman]

But scaremongering seems to have become a new hobby for some posters on here. The Treasury report biased. ... never ... its all 100% true according to these doomsayers

They put up their predictions and convince themselves they are facts. Over six months on and the economy is still ok..... must really piss the doom on gers off.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But scaremongering seems to have become a new hobby for some posters on here. The Treasury report biased. ... never ... its all 100% true according to these doomsayers

We certainly have a few High Priests of Project Fear on NSC. The most disappointing thing is some people not being willing to even consider the thought that they may have been wrong (or partly wrong) about the consequences of voting for Brexit and giving it a chance. Any sensible, open minded person should concede the past six months have not matched the dire Project Fear predictions made specifically about the short term effects. Overall we have coped reasonably well considering the political/economic turbulence.

 

[Baldseagull]

Seems a fair reason why the EU will not continue as you know it, its a busted flush, how a burgeoning political project can get to a point where they willingly deliver a level of hardship to their own people on the back of protectionism and political consequence is the very reason why it will soon be on the verge of collapse, either eagerly prompted by the electorate or just an old fashion collapse with real civil unrest.

There is something wrong with you, they are not about to willingly inflict hardship, we are. Given the situation being handed to them now, they have two choices, make a change in policy that would allow the UK to reconsider it's position on leaving, or strike a deal with the UK in the best interests of the remaining members.
It is not in the interests of the remaining members to allow us to carry on as before, but without having to stick by the same rules, and make contributions to it.

 

[Soulman]

There is something wrong with you, they are not about to willingly inflict hardship, we are. Given the situation being handed to them now, they have two choices, make a change in policy that would allow the UK to reconsider it's position on leaving, or strike a deal with the UK in the best interests of the remaining members.
It is not in the interests of the remaining members to allow us to carry on as before, but without having to stick by the same rules, and make contributions to it.

Of course things can not and will not continue as it was pre Brexit, stating the obvious, but I believe Germany for one were threatening to "inflict hardships" on us.

 

[nicko31]

This is good stuff. Andrea Leadsom addresses an audience of Oxfordshire farmers and has a quick show of hands as to who has confidence in her Department's Brexit strategy. The only person who puts his hand up is a Junior Minister in her department, who, funnily enough, was also a passionate campaigner to leave the EU.

http://news.sky.com/story/andrea-leadsoms-brexit-boast-fails-to-impress-farmers-10718020

My friend who is a farmer was at that meeting, shes widely regarded as a complete joke in the sector. How her name was ever considered for PM is beyond me, is still going on about exporting jam and biscuits as part of our export drive?