[Politics] Brexit

[GT49er]

The people voted to leave the EU.
The former PM resigned in a big sulk, but the new one came in and said yes, we'll trigger Article 50 early next year.
Everybody keeping up, so far?
Then a bunch of mega-rich remoaners decided to splash a lot of cash (and therefore inevitably tax payers cash as well) by taking a case to the High Court to protect Parliamentary democracy, to challenge the legality of the Government triggering Article 50 without Parliamentary consent, and to use the independent judiciary to ensure no undemocratic precedents were set. Not trying to stop Brexit, overturn the referendum result, thwart the will of the people, no, of course not; they are just very nice people with a social conscience and a great respect for the tradition of an independent judiciary (probably as long as the independent judiciary agrees with them, I suspect).
(Actually, they did want to stop Brexit).
The High Court judges agreed with them, and said that the Government couldn't trigger Article 50 without the consent of Parliament, so the Government launches an appeal to the Supreme Court. All clear so far?
Today, a vote was put to Parliament. By a massive majority the MPs (to their credit; most of them are remainers) voted to approve the Government's plan to trigger Article 50 early in 2017.
So, Brexit has the peoples' approval, it now has the Parliamentary approval (OK, reluctantly) that many remoaners thought wouldn't happen. Makes the Supreme Court rather redundant really, as the conditions sought by the remoaners at the High Court are now in place.
I'm sure there'll be a lot of arguments, and vitriol and dirty tricks to come, but today the Commons have driven a MASSIVE nail into the remoaners' case. Whichever side you're on, that cannot be denied.

 

[cunning fergus]

Thanks for proving that hate crime has increased as a result of Brexit.

I never said it didn't, I do challenge the narrative that it was driven universally by the voters who won, as oppose to those voters who lost.

The descent of the Labour Party into its own very public civil war merely proves the point...........this was nothing to do with Brixeters and involved 100s of messages of hateful abuse, the odd death threat plus a brick through her window.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...le-abusive-homophobic-messages-labour-members

If people are so politically motivated to commit these hate crimes on their own side then they would be just as predisposed (as remainers) to head down to a mosque in the dead of night, spray on a swastika and wait for the media to point the cause to racist Brexiters.

That is not to absolve Brexit or some Brexiters from causing difficulties or being racist, however the binary narrative peddled by the media and remain Politicians is largely politically motivated.

 

[knocky1]

I never said it didn't, I do challenge the narrative that it was driven universally by the voters who won, as oppose to those voters who lost.

The descent of the Labour Party into its own very public civil war merely proves the point...........this was nothing to do with Brixeters and involved 100s of messages of hateful abuse, the odd death threat plus a brick through her window.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...le-abusive-homophobic-messages-labour-members

If people are so politically motivated to commit these hate crimes on their own side then they would be just as predisposed (as remainers) to head down to a mosque in the dead of night, spray on a swastika and wait for the media to point the cause to racist Brexiters.

That is not to absolve Brexit or some Brexiters from causing difficulties or being racist, however the binary narrative peddled by the media and remain Politicians is largely politically motivated.

Let's summarise.... A Labour Party member is just as likely to spray a swastika on a mosque as a racist Brexiteer.

 

[cunning fergus]

Let's summarise.... A Labour Party member is just as likely to spray a swastika on a mosque as a racist Brexiteer.

If Labour Party supporters are prepared to make death threats, send homophobic abuse and chuck bricks through windows of their own MPs because they disagree with their political views, then I have no doubt that the very same people could commit equally hateful and/or violent acts in other circumstances to advance their own political ends.

 

[knocky1]

If Labour Party supporters are prepared to make death threats, send homophobic abuse and chuck bricks through windows of their own MPs because they disagree with their political views, then I have no doubt that the very same people could commit equally hateful and/or violent acts in other circumstances to advance their own political ends.

Right. Looks like I got a bit mixed up as to who were the dimwits. It was me all along. As I abhor racism I will leave the Labour Party immediately. Who do you recommend? Britain First, EDL or UKIP.

 

[cunning fergus]

Right. Looks like I got a bit mixed up as to who were the dimwits. It was me all along. As I abhor racism I will leave the Labour Party immediately. Who do you recommend? Britain First, EDL or UKIP.

So let me summarise.........there are no racist dimwits in the Labour Party?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...suspended-50-members-for-anti-semitic-and-ra/

 

[ManOfSussex]

Forgive me if I am missing a point, but would a post-Brexit permit scheme discriminate between EU and non-EU workers? The minimum wage would make UK farm employment attractive to single people from both eastern Europe and near-Asia and I'd imagine both would come. Would people in Lincolnshire have a preference? It's tempting to say 'of course not' but I'd think that like most British people they would have a general and impersonalised preference for Europeans, all things being equal.

The favourites might be Poles. Poles have been coming to Lincolnshire to work for a very long time. Most air force bases in the county had a few in the 1940s although sadly they often didn't hang around for long.

I'm not sure if post-Brexit this scheme would discriminate between EU and non-EU workers. What's being proposed is a Non-EU work permit scheme for next summer, before Brexit has happened, as the NFU are foreseeing a further shortfall in available farm workers.

 

[mikeyjh]

Interesting, if slightly worrying news this morning concerning UK based banks. It is inevitable that some financial institutions will depart for pastures new indeed ALL of them will have set up teams to consider the implications of Brexit but is it 100% a bad thing? On the one hand I'd love us to base our economy on something other than services like actually, you know, building and making stuff - On the other, we're bound to take some big hits in the short term:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38245646

 

[beorhthelm]

Interesting, if slightly worrying news this morning concerning UK based banks. It is inevitable that some financial institutions will depart for pastures new indeed ALL of them will have set up teams to consider the implications of Brexit but is it 100% a bad thing? On the one hand I'd love us to base our economy on something other than services like actually, you know, building and making stuff - On the other, we're bound to take some big hits in the short term:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38245646

its neither worrying, or news, just Newsnight russling up an anti-brexit story. cities constantly try to attract businesses of all types to their place, Paris and Frankfurt have been trying to attract banks for years. it must annoy the French especially that London has the 4th largest French population, with so many involved in their banks operations over here.

 

[studio150]

The people voted to leave the EU.
The former PM resigned in a big sulk, but the new one came in and said yes, we'll trigger Article 50 early next year.
Everybody keeping up, so far?
Then a bunch of mega-rich remoaners decided to splash a lot of cash (and therefore inevitably tax payers cash as well) by taking a case to the High Court to protect Parliamentary democracy, to challenge the legality of the Government triggering Article 50 without Parliamentary consent, and to use the independent judiciary to ensure no undemocratic precedents were set. Not trying to stop Brexit, overturn the referendum result, thwart the will of the people, no, of course not; they are just very nice people with a social conscience and a great respect for the tradition of an independent judiciary (probably as long as the independent judiciary agrees with them, I suspect).
(Actually, they did want to stop Brexit).
The High Court judges agreed with them, and said that the Government couldn't trigger Article 50 without the consent of Parliament, so the Government launches an appeal to the Supreme Court. All clear so far?
Today, a vote was put to Parliament. By a massive majority the MPs (to their credit; most of them are remainers) voted to approve the Government's plan to trigger Article 50 early in 2017.
So, Brexit has the peoples' approval, it now has the Parliamentary approval (OK, reluctantly) that many remoaners thought wouldn't happen. Makes the Supreme Court rather redundant really, as the conditions sought by the remoaners at the High Court are now in place.
I'm sure there'll be a lot of arguments, and vitriol and dirty tricks to come, but today the Commons have driven a MASSIVE nail into the remoaners' case. Whichever side you're on, that cannot be denied.

If that is the case why have both sides not withdrawn from the appeal hearing? There would still seem to be a narrow legal position that needs to be resolved to ensure that the triggering of Article 50 is correctly undertaken.
All the vote has done is effectively say Article 50 myst be triggerred by the end of March 2017 but not how it is triggerred.

On a separate note if you want a good laugh pick up the ladybird bpok about Brexit Island. Fun stuff

 

[ManOfSussex]

its neither worrying, or news, just Newsnight russling up an anti-brexit story. cities constantly try to attract businesses of all types to their place, Paris and Frankfurt have been trying to attract banks for years. it must annoy the French especially that London has the 4th largest French population, with so many involved in their banks operations over here.

That's good to know that it's not worrying that some jobs and roles may be shifted abroad and lost in The UK in financial services as a result of Brexit then. Silly me for worrying about my job next year then/It would have happened anyway/price worth paying/delete as applicable.

 

[Baldseagull]

Interesting, if slightly worrying news this morning concerning UK based banks. It is inevitable that some financial institutions will depart for pastures new indeed ALL of them will have set up teams to consider the implications of Brexit but is it 100% a bad thing? On the one hand I'd love us to base our economy on something other than services like actually, you know, building and making stuff - On the other, we're bound to take some big hits in the short term:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38245646

It is a very bad thing that we are so reliant on the Financial services sector, which makes it a very bad thing that we will likely lose a chunk of it.
It is not the EU that prevents us from having a more diverse economy, but you are right that leaving it may force us to have a more diverse economy.
For me, if I had a good strong source of income, and a few weaker ones, I would look to strengthen the weaker ones rather than reduce the strong one.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Apologies if posted previously ...

On the five stages of grief, many Remain voters are stuck in denial

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/11/03/five-stages-grief-most-remain-voters-are-stuck-den/

Mind the Crocodiles.

 

[mikeyjh]

its neither worrying, or news, just Newsnight russling up an anti-brexit story. cities constantly try to attract businesses of all types to their place, Paris and Frankfurt have been trying to attract banks for years. it must annoy the French especially that London has the 4th largest French population, with so many involved in their banks operations over here.

You see, there are some people who can have a sensible discussion about post Brexit Britain and then there's people like you. I know for an absolute fact that large financial financial services organisations are looking a the possibility of moving their HQ functions from he UK as a direct result Brexit. Even the most ardent Brexiteer must realise that this is going to happen? Will all of them go, definitely not. Will some of them go, definitely yes.

So we accept that Brexit is going to happen and we can discuss the positives and negatives OR we can celebrate the positives, go "ner ner ner we won and you're a remoaner" and dismiss everything else as 'project fear'. Up to you I guess.

 

[Baldseagull]

That's good to know that it's not worrying that some jobs and roles may be shifted abroad and lost in The UK in financial services as a result of Brexit then. Silly me for worrying about my job next year then/It would have happened anyway/price worth paying/delete as applicable.

Good luck. If we end up with freedom of movement to some degree, you might be able to follow your job to wherever it lands, which may or may not appeal. Hope it works out for you.

 

[portslade seagull]

That's good to know that it's not worrying that some jobs and roles may be shifted abroad and lost in The UK in financial services as a result of Brexit then. Silly me for worrying about my job next year then/It would have happened anyway/price worth paying/delete as applicable.

Nobody worried when my manufactoring job along with 2000 others left these shores back in the 80s. It happens. Just another rehashed scare story from the BBC who have received a nail in there coffin with the parliamentary vote for Brexit

 

[mikeyjh]

YSo we accept that Brexit is going to happen and we can discuss the positives and negatives OR we can celebrate the positives, go "ner ner ner we won and you're a remoaner" and dismiss everything else as 'project fear'. Up to you I guess.

Apologies if posted previously ...

On the five stages of grief, many Remain voters are stuck in denial

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/11/03/five-stages-grief-most-remain-voters-are-stuck-den/

Mind the Crocodiles.

QED

 

[JC Footy Genius]

QED

I take it your one of the 20% then?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nobody worried when my manufactoring job along with 2000 others left these shores back in the 80s. It happens. Just another rehashed scare story from the BBC who have received a nail in there coffin with the parliamentary vote for Brexit

What a weird response. Do you accept everything in life because "it happens"?

 

[beorhthelm]

You see, there are some people who can have a sensible discussion about post Brexit Britain and then there's people like you.

my point was that its not because of Brexit, Paris and Frankfurt have been trying to get companies to go there for years and failed. yes, with Brexit the landscape changes things and some departments and roles will have to move there. not wholesale businesses though, they are here because the international markets are here, for currency, commodities, eurobond, derivatives and so on. there are foreign businesses taking up new office leases in London including banks despite the gloom that everything is over for the UK, business doesn't agree.

job markets and business are not static. theres a stat that 28% or 2.8m jobs (cant recall) are recycled every year, that is jobs are lost and new jobs created. Brexit will create some more flux, but while theres a population and economy as large as our the vast majority of people will be OK. of those directly affected, many will have the skills and aptitude to take new roles, the really good ones will be retained even if companies move to EU. i may seem blase, i work for a multi national company with people scattered across Europe, "HQ" is in Switzerland, operations in Frankfurt and Madrid, business leaders in London and US, people move between roles in these places and even to far east and South America, while often remaining in one country, so i dont fear the idea that a brass plaque business will be set up in Warsaw or Paris to front a finance company's EU operations.