Baroness Thatcher - Dead / RIP

[soistes]

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] - The thread title appears to have changed. Please can it revert back to what it was? Far more appropriate.

Glad to see that someone has changed the thread title back to something slightly more neutral

 

[keaton]

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] - The thread title appears to have changed. Please can it revert back to what it was? Far more appropriate.

Are you suggesting she's not dead?

 

[Albumen]

Not really - no.

Just when you thought the left couldn't stoop any lower

I don't like to disappoint.

 

[pork pie]

Agree completely with your post ( especially the bit underlined ! )

With regards the history bit - it somewhat depends on how you teach it - here's what Baker suggests leaving out which I totally disagree with ! Stop teaching about the holocaust so that children see Germany in a better light, says Lord Baker - Telegraph

Edit - there's obviously something to do with the name Baker that makes them a complete **insert a non-google friendly four letter swear word of your choice **

So, what is your point in a modern world? Why do we need to teach about that element? It happened, and it is a fact, it was an act of pure evil undertaken by a group of fanatics. However, there are loads of facts that we do not teach children. They are not at school long enough to learn everything. I tend to agree, that IF we are heading towards a more integrated Europe, teaching our children about such evil recent events is very likely to taint their view of all Germans. How much do we teach children about Stalin's death camps or forced death marches? How much do we teach them about the Black and Tans in Ireland? They simply do not need to know. If parents wish them to know, then there are lots of opportunities for parents to teach them independantly by going to museums etc.

 

[pork pie]

Odd... I work hard and get by on my own efforts. I loathed her.

You're wrong, get over it.

and as for your "I met a miner once" comment... so ****ing what? You met a person who felt their life had improved. I've met dozens of people who had families torn apart by her policies.

Great to see that you live by Maggie's teachings. Good for you. Have you given any thought to how much her policies facilitated your success?

 

[keaton]

So, what is your point in a modern world? Why do we need to teach about that element? It happened, and it is a fact, it was an act of pure evil undertaken by a group of fanatics. However, there are loads of facts that we do not teach children. They are not at school long enough to learn everything. I tend to agree, that IF we are heading towards a more integrated Europe, teaching our children about such evil recent events is very likely to taint their view of all Germans. How much do we teach children about Stalin's death camps or forced death marches? How much do we teach them about the Black and Tans in Ireland? They simply do not need to know. If parents wish them to know, then there are lots of opportunities for parents to teach them independantly by going to museums etc.

Because it's incredibly useful as a teaching tool to address issues such the stigmatising of minorities, propoganda and inflicting evil on the fellow man.
I wouldn't expect a Conservative Fundamentalist to understand

 

[JCL666]

Great to see that you live by Maggie's teachings. Good for you. Have you given any thought to how much her policies facilitated your success?

Yeah, because she INVENTED that didn't she?

With the comments you make I can't decide whether you're trolling or stupid.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

So, what is your point in a modern world? Why do we need to teach about that element? It happened, and it is a fact, it was an act of pure evil undertaken by a group of fanatics. However, there are loads of facts that we do not teach children. They are not at school long enough to learn everything. I tend to agree, that IF we are heading towards a more integrated Europe, teaching our children about such evil recent events is very likely to taint their view of all Germans. How much do we teach children about Stalin's death camps or forced death marches? How much do we teach them about the Black and Tans in Ireland? They simply do not need to know. If parents wish them to know, then there are lots of opportunities for parents to teach them independantly by going to museums etc.

I agree with you. I did history O-level at Varndean GSFB and we only got as far as the industrial revolution. 20th century history was something I learned through my family and from what I read up on my own.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Really? So what part of it is wrong? I suppose you are one of the offending types?

The guidelines and standards should be cast in stone. They are intended to improve our education system, and ensure students are prepared for uniform national exams. I remember when I was at school we had teachers who wasted valuable time on things that had nothing whatsoever to do with the national exam borad questions, or even to prepare me for future life.

The first, at junior school, spend weeks on "Topics" about "Northern Rhodesia" - why? Nothing about that in the 11+.

The second, a real beardy self-confessed leftie who would never report us when he saw us in the pub at lunchtimes, spend weeks studying the evils of Watergate - again - why? There was not a single question about it in the O Level papers.

Given that all teachers do now is roll out the same lectures year after year, they surely do not want to have to do any real work researching for fresh lectures each year do they?

Some muppet on here mentioned that one teacher wanted to teach (indoctrinate no doubt) his pupils about the Irish Conflict and the politics around them. Given the political views of the average teacher, that simply cannot be allowed.

So, what is your point in a modern world? Why do we need to teach about that element? It happened, and it is a fact, it was an act of pure evil undertaken by a group of fanatics. However, there are loads of facts that we do not teach children. They are not at school long enough to learn everything. I tend to agree, that IF we are heading towards a more integrated Europe, teaching our children about such evil recent events is very likely to taint their view of all Germans. How much do we teach children about Stalin's death camps or forced death marches? How much do we teach them about the Black and Tans in Ireland? They simply do not need to know. If parents wish them to know, then there are lots of opportunities for parents to teach them independantly by going to museums etc.

Good grief - you suggest teachers have a political agenda and shouldn't be allowed to teach based on it and then suggest allowing parents to educate their children about history based on their political agenda.

I believe the holocaust ( and everything about the second world war ) should be taught in some desperate attempt to prevent it happening again. We should learn from history.

You're an idiot if you think children should only be taught to pass exams rather than what has happened in the world.

I'm not going to respond to you again as I'd rather comment on the posts taking the piss out of me elsewhere than enter into a debate with such a moron. And for the record, I personally thought Thatcher did more good than bad but that won't fit with your polarised view of the world !

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So, what is your point in a modern world? Why do we need to teach about that element? It happened, and it is a fact, it was an act of pure evil undertaken by a group of fanatics. However, there are loads of facts that we do not teach children. They are not at school long enough to learn everything. I tend to agree, that IF we are heading towards a more integrated Europe, teaching our children about such evil recent events is very likely to taint their view of all Germans. How much do we teach children about Stalin's death camps or forced death marches? How much do we teach them about the Black and Tans in Ireland? They simply do not need to know. If parents wish them to know, then there are lots of opportunities for parents to teach them independantly by going to museums etc.

What utter nonsense.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

With the comments you make I can't decide whether you're trolling or stupid.

Or maybe both?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Were you spying on me last night?

 

[kc1]

There are a lot of ill informed, uneducated and ignorant comments on here. I wonder how many have just jumped on the Hate Thatch band wagon.
Love or loathe her, she was what Great Britain needed back then and it's what we need now!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Really? So what part of it is wrong? I suppose you are one of the offending types?

The guidelines and standards should be cast in stone. They are intended to improve our education system, and ensure students are prepared for uniform national exams. I remember when I was at school we had teachers who wasted valuable time on things that had nothing whatsoever to do with the national exam borad questions, or even to prepare me for future life.

The first, at junior school, spend weeks on "Topics" about "Northern Rhodesia" - why? Nothing about that in the 11+.

The second, a real beardy self-confessed leftie who would never report us when he saw us in the pub at lunchtimes, spend weeks studying the evils of Watergate - again - why? There was not a single question about it in the O Level papers.

Given that all teachers do now is roll out the same lectures year after year, they surely do not want to have to do any real work researching for fresh lectures each year do they?

Some muppet on here mentioned that one teacher wanted to teach (indoctrinate no doubt) his pupils about the Irish Conflict and the politics around them. Given the political views of the average teacher, that simply cannot be allowed.

Even by your standards this is utter crap.

What do you want schools to produce? A production line of children who can recite certain 'facts', robots with no creativity or imagination whatsoever?

Teachers become teachers because they have a vocation - they have a deep seated desire to help children to progress, academically, emotionally and socially. They work with real dedication to help each individual child reach their potential - believe it or not, each child is different to all the others, and it takes skill and empathy to help everyone to make good progress.

Education is NOT all about exams! It is, of course, important to prepare children as fully as possible so that they perform as well as they can in these exams, but education has to be enjoyable too. Teaching skills through the 'topics' that you dismiss do flippantly adds relevance to the children's learning, and makes them more likely to be engaged and on task, even if it isn't always about the exams - the necessary skills are embedded, and can be used elsewhere.

Teachers do NOT just 'roll out the same lectures year after year', and to say they do shows that you are entirely ignorant about what goes on in schools. Planning lessons is an extremely time consuming part of the job, and lessons are planned to suit the children's needs - as I said, all children are different and it just would not be possible to teach in the way that you suggest that they do. Assessment for Learning informs planning throughout each school year, and teachers who do not use it efficiently are given training to improve their practice. Teaching is one of the most closely assessed, inspected and observed professions, and performance management is given a high priority.

And this cliched view you have of teachers as beardy lefties who only want to indoctrinate our children is just beyond contempt. Teachers are dedicated professionals from all parts of the political spectrum. Many are becoming more active in defending their profession as Michael Gove tries to take education back into the dark ages; the present government's policies on education are not popular within the profession. Rightly so.

I've been avoiding this thread - I knew that it would make me cross. I wasn't wrong.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There are a lot of ill informed, uneducated and ignorant comments on here. I wonder how many have just jumped on the Hate Thatch band wagon.
Love or loathe her, she was what Great Britain needed back then and it's what we need now!

And this is an educated and knowledgable contribution?

I loathed her then, just as I loathe Cameron, Osbourne, Gove et al now.

To state that she was what we needed back then, and leave it there, as if this is undisputed fact, is as ignorant as anything I've read on here.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, because she INVENTED that didn't she?

With the comments you make I can't decide whether you're trolling or stupid.

I find it hard to tell in just about every post that he makes. I'm becoming more inclined towards the latter.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

You are joking right? They cannot be trusted to not indoctrinate our young people with their left-wing ideals, as happened for years with so many beardy, jeans and cordroy wearing, lefties taking over our schools in the 60s, 70s and 80s. The National Curriculum is VITAL to ensure that there is an even standard of eduction. The Ofsted tables are also vital in telling parents which schools perform the best, and thus are the ones they should put their children into.

This is possibly the single most ridiculous post I have ever read anywhere on the internet.

Apart from the fact that I totally reject your view of the teaching profession, is it better to have a national curriculum which can be used by a nutcase Education Secretary to impose his antiquated views on what should be taught which are in danger of amounting to making schools a propaganda machine?

And anyone who knows anything about education will tell you that plenty of schools pander to league tables and the like to the detriment of the education of the children they have in their care., and that OFSTED is by no means a reliable guide to which school will be best for your children. Many schools have managed to achieve a reputation in the past way beyond what is merited by their present performance. Close to where I live we have a formerly "excellent" primary School which is currently in special measures.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Even by your standards this is utter crap.

What do you want schools to produce? A production line of children who can recite certain 'facts', robots with no creativity or imagination whatsoever?

Teachers become teachers because they have a vocation - they have a deep seated desire to help children to progress, academically, emotionally and socially. They work with real dedication to help each individual child reach their potential - believe it or not, each child is different to all the others, and it takes skill and empathy to help everyone to make good progress.

Education is NOT all about exams! It is, of course, important to prepare children as fully as possible so that they perform as well as they can in these exams, but education has to be enjoyable too. Teaching skills through the 'topics' that you dismiss do flippantly adds relevance to the children's learning, and makes them more likely to be engaged and on task, even if it isn't always about the exams - the necessary skills are embedded, and can be used elsewhere.

Teachers do NOT just 'roll out the same lectures year after year', and to say they do shows that you are entirely ignorant about what goes on in schools. Planning lessons is an extremely time consuming part of the job, and lessons are planned to suit the children's needs - as I said, all children are different and it just would not be possible to teach in the way that you suggest that they do. Assessment for Learning informs planning throughout each school year, and teachers who do not use it efficiently are given training to improve their practice. Teaching is one of the most closely assessed, inspected and observed professions, and performance management is given a high priority.

And this cliched view you have of teachers as beardy lefties who only want to indoctrinate our children is just beyond contempt. Teachers are dedicated professionals from all parts of the political spectrum. Many are becoming more active in defending their profession as Michael Gove tries to take education back into the dark ages; the present government's policies on education are not popular within the profession. Rightly so.

I've been avoiding this thread - I knew that it would make me cross. I wasn't wrong.

Well said. I have just posted along the same lines, but forgot to mention I was at school in the 1970's and don't remember a single teacher with a beard, or any who wore sandals or corduroy. Many of them politically were also probably somewhere right of Attila the Hun.

Good teachers, then as now, are responding to a vocation and really care about what they are doing and the children or young people they are doing it for. If not and they are not up to it., a good school will find them out.

Most people who slag off teachers would not last 5 minutes in that very difficult environment themselves..

 

[The Large One]

Poor old Pork Pie (is there anyone more appropriately nom-de-plumed?) - living in a dream world all of his own.

It seems the education system he so little understands let him down quite catastrophically.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

@DavidinSouthampton - sorry forgot to mention the stupid Ofsted scores in my post. If @pork pie is really that stupid to judge schools on Ofsted scores then I pity any children he has !