Common as Mook
Not Posh as Fook
- Jul 26, 2004
- 5,638
I'm nearly 60, so I was very much around in the 70s. I remember it differently from you, however, as a fairer, gentler more equal society. Inflation was indeed quite high, but that largely originated in the oil price hikes of the early 80s. One advantage of strong unions was that they managed to negotiate wage increases which took account of inflation, so that they were still able to afford their shopping in Tescos. Compare that to the present time, post-Thatcher, where unions are so weak that most working people's real wages have been falling for the past five years.
So, no taxation then. How are you going to pay for things like the roads, street lighting, refuse collection etc etc. The list is endless but healthcare is probably the most relevant.
I don't see how the inflation of the mid-seventies could originate in the oil price hikes of the early 80s! Many red-brick universities, such as Sussex, opened in the late 60s, offering many degrees in sociology. They were hotbeds of Marxism, so that by the mid-seventies, Marxism had trounced the more gentle, intellectual socialism of old Labour, and political views became more extreme and polarised. I was a Labour voter in those days, but I was never a Marxist, because true Marxism had been misinterpreted and hijacked by the growing cult of the politics of guilt. It continues today with green policies, global warming and suchlike. But the proletariat did rise up. Not through revolution, but through education. The unions of the seventies were self-serving Tsars, the forerunners of the blue, yellow and red political Tsars of today. Margaret Thatcher was the last of the type of politician who believed in her country and worked for her country, whether you agree with her policies or not. Today's politicians are nothing more than career sock-puppets who see politics as a personal piggy-bank and the route to a board job and TV career when they leave Westminster. They change their minds dependent on which lobby-group or multinational has the upper hand.
Think of Thatcher however you want. One thing is fact. She counted more in her life than many on here, supporters or detractors, spitefull fools or suppine bum lickers will ever count in theirs! She'll be remembered by history. We all take a bit part so have your say all of you and reflect in the mirror.
It's not a cop out, most people will not argue that she instigated seismic changes that still impact on our lives today and will do for a long time to come. You can't wholly separate the financial crisis of 2008 from Thatcher's deregulation of the banks in the 80s, you can't dismiss the housing issues that face the country today without reference to the (continuing) discounted sell off of social housing.
The biggest thing for me that we can directly attribute to Thatcher is the lack of social cohesion today - Now it is me, rather than us and I rather than we, and for that, I will never forgive her.
Given it costs no more to collect the rubbish from a £1m house than say a £150k one why should everyone not pay the same for the same service ? When I go into Tescos they don't charge me based on my income or house value.
That said Council Tax is equally unfair - house value doesn't necessarily correlate with an ability to pay ( especially for older people ).
A local income tax would be fairer.
Of course it is. If successive governments failed to change her policies, then what we are left with are still her policies.
Street parties in Brixton & Glasgow last night.
Hmm, so the country is now full of people who cannot make their own judgements and decisions on how they run their lives and think because of Maggie. I don't buy that.
I don't see how the inflation of the mid-seventies could originate in the oil price hikes of the early 80s! Many red-brick universities, such as Sussex, opened in the late 60s, offering many degrees in sociology. They were hotbeds of Marxism, so that by the mid-seventies, Marxism had trounced the more gentle, intellectual socialism of old Labour, and political views became more extreme and polarised. I was a Labour voter in those days, but I was never a Marxist, because true Marxism had been misinterpreted and hijacked by the growing cult of the politics of guilt. It continues today with green policies, global warming and suchlike. But the proletariat did rise up. Not through revolution, but through education. The unions of the seventies were self-serving Tsars, the forerunners of the blue, yellow and red political Tsars of today. Margaret Thatcher was the last of the type of politician who believed in her country and worked for her country, whether you agree with her policies or not. Today's politicians are nothing more than career sock-puppets who see politics as a personal piggy-bank and the route to a board job and TV career when they leave Westminster. They change their minds dependent on which lobby-group or multinational has the upper hand.
My opposition to my being taxed, is an opposition to your being taxed. And everyone being taxed. So it's hardly selfish. And your labor is not a legitimate target for taxation in my opinion. If a tax is placed on fuel, and the tax is used to pay for roads - no problem. Nobody is forced to used a motor vehicle, and if they do they contribute to the infrastructure which makes it possible.
When the government takes a portion of your income, it is taking something to which it has no natural or logical right. The implication when the state takes a portion of your income, before it gets to you, is that it owns you and your income, and it permits you to keep some of it. There is no legitimate basis for an income tax, none.
ERM, no, she presided over a massive increase in unemployment.
Yes, that was a typo. Sorry about that -- the OPEC price rises were in the early 70s, so they did lead to the inflation that I referred to.
I agree with you about today's politicians, but not really about red brick universities (of which Sussex was never one -- also Sussex was founded in 1961 not the late 60s).
Red brick university - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The red brick universities were founded in the late 19th century (Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool etc), and were not really hotbeds of Marxism, although it was possible to study sociology at all of them. Marxism is an economic doctrine, in any case, which again long predates the 1960s, so I'm not really clear what point you are making.
Anyway -- no one could argue that the Labour party in the 1970s was a hotbed of Marxism: Callaghan, Wilson and co?? Even Tony Benn was never really a Marxist.
There were some fringe Marxist groups which emerged in the Labour party in the 1980s (but this was during, not before the Thatcher years): Militant tendency and all that, but Marxism was never dominant in the Labour party.
Well, the country is divided into two groups: those who can make their own judgements, and those who think they cannot, and blame Maggie.
Which any Government in between could have changed or reversed. But they didn't. They developed her policies instead.
exactly what 'FAVOURS' would you be expecting by any government? something for nothing i'm thinking...