Baroness Thatcher - Dead / RIP

[DavidinSouthampton]

"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope."

And your point is?

Personally I don't think she did any of those things - in fact quite the opposite - and reading that Jim prior, a tory politician at the time, was almost sick on the spot when he heard her quote that shows either how cynical it was, or, if she actually meant it, how far she actually strayed from her original intentions.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Sorry, what? This is NSC!!

I probably meant the people who ought to read it but who will dismiss it because of where it is from. Sorry to generalise.

 

[birthofanorange]

It's true that she left behind a more brutal society. The evidence is clear, by way of all these people dancing on the grave of an old lady who suffered with dementia, before she is even in it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You paid the same amount no matter what your income and assets. It did not rob everyone equally.

Given it costs no more to collect the rubbish from a £1m house than say a £150k one why should everyone not pay the same for the same service ? When I go into Tescos they don't charge me based on my income or house value.

That said Council Tax is equally unfair - house value doesn't necessarily correlate with an ability to pay ( especially for older people ).

A local income tax would be fairer.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Street parties in Brixton & Glasgow last night.

Yes and judging by the news feed, those dancing weren't even alive in the 80's.

 

[Icy Gull]

There's currently much support for government policy that is hurting the absolute most vulnerable in society. For instance, yesterday (you may have missed it), saw the beginning of the end for DLA, a crucial benefit that allows many people with disabilities to WORK, but they're scroungers aren't they? So yes, I believe we have one of the most selfish societies in the world.

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I'm not sure that her influence could possibly stretch to her being responsible for current Government policy and peoples attitudes today. People are what they are and someone who left office so long ago cannot be blamed for today's mindset surely?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Criticize her leadership and policy all day long. Whatever your views, I can't see anyone arguing that that is wrong, or that it should not be done.

But celebrating and reveling her death, that is something else.

I agree totally. I think my first post on this thread said I would not be celebrating.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's not a cop out, most people will not argue that she instigated seismic changes that still impact on our lives today and will do for a long time to come. You can't wholly separate the financial crisis of 2008 from Thatcher's deregulation of the banks in the 80s, you can't dismiss the housing issues that face the country today without reference to the (continuing) discounted sell off of social housing.

The biggest thing for me that we can directly attribute to Thatcher is the lack of social cohesion today - Now it is me, rather than us and I rather than we, and for that, I will never forgive her.

Successive governments have had 23 years to put it right but failed.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I'm not sure that her influence could possibly stretch to her being responsible for current Government policy and peoples attitudes today. People are what they are and someone who left office so long ago cannot be blamed for today's mindset surely?

I think the majority of heavyweight political commentators would disagree with you. It seems to be commonly accepted that she changed the collective national mindset.

 

[Icy Gull]

Successive governments have had 23 years to put it right but failed.

and yet it's ok to still be blaming Thatcher.

 

[Silk]

Successive governments have had 23 years to put it right but failed.

That's because they don't think it's wrong, presumably.

 

[Silk]

and yet it's ok to still be blaming Thatcher.

Of course it is. If successive governments failed to change her policies, then what we are left with are still her policies.

 

[Icy Gull]

I think the majority of heavyweight political commentators would disagree with you. It seems to be commonly accepted that she changed the collective national mindset.

Hmm, so the country is now full of people who cannot make their own judgements and decisions on how they run their lives and think because of Maggie. I don't buy that.

 

[Trigger]

I shall be wearing my Maggie Thatcher mask again for the next few days... RIP Maggie.

 

[vegster]

Successive governments have had 23 years to put it right but failed.

It would cost too much to buy back everything that was sold for starters.

 

[Hillian1]

Yes and judging by the news feed, those dancing weren't even alive in the 80's.

It's not their age that bothers me, you didn't have to be alive in WW2 to know what Hitler/Stalin etc were like, it's the fact people are out celebrating death, even rejoicing on here.

I am no lover of Mrs Thatcher and her policies when in power but cannot bring myself to be happy that an elderly, infirm, widow with dementia probably died alone not knowing who she was or what she had been.

 

[dingodan]

Given it costs no more to collect the rubbish from a £1m house than say a £150k one why should everyone not pay the same for the same service ? When I go into Tescos they don't charge me based on my income or house value.

That said Council Tax is equally unfair - house value doesn't necessarily correlate with an ability to pay ( especially for older people ).

A local income tax would be fairer.

Completely correct, although I would go for something else as an alternative, the idea of any "income tax" repulses me. Your income is compensation for your labor, and your labor is your property.

 

[Icy Gull]

Of course it is. If successive governments failed to change her policies, then what we are left with are still her policies.

I held off getting involved in all of this because I know that people have their political opinions and no arguing is gonna change that, so we end up going around and around getting nowhere. It was a mistake for me to get involved, I'll leave this discussion now (commonly known as a flounce )

 

[Albumen]

The boss apparently!

Not keen on that kind of form etiquette as it doesn't make sense but hey it's his baby.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Its amazing, I am a little shocked at some of the things I'm hearing about Margaret Thatcher today. Apparently she won the Cold War, put the Great back into Britain and was a champion for women's rights?

Here are 10 reasons why I am no supporter of hers. (and yeah, hide your eyes you sensitive flowers, I'm glad she is gone).

1. She denounced Mandela as a terrorist and supported sanction busting trade links with the racist South African government.
2. She supported Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and General Suharto.
3. The Poll tax
4. Started the privatisation of the NHS.(That's gone well hasn't it?)
5. Instituted a culture of corporate greed and profit in The City by deregulation.(That's gone well!)
6. Increased VAT - a tax which hits the poorest hardest - from 8% to 17.5%, whilst cutting taxes for the richest (sounds familiar)
7. Did not believe in "Society" and took relish in destroying the Unions.
8. Sold off council houses.( So now we have no social housing left)
9. Section 28 ( if you don't know what this little gem is, look it up )
10. Privatised almost everything she could, from energy companies to the trains. Again, that's all gone really well hasn't it.

I hope some of these things aren't forgotten in the coming days.

1. Didn't support sanctions but worked to affect change from within through negotiation - see serialisation of book. I'm not saying that she was the reason for Mandela's release though
2. Can't disagree.
3. Poll tax - Didn't think the principle was that unfair personally. Basic principle of each adult paying their own way?
4. Sorry - it's fair to say she wanted to privatise the NHS, but didn't actually start it, that was Major's government
5. Gordon Brown deregulated the banks. Fair to say people were encouraged to aspire to better things, which did in its own way promote greed, in a number of cases.
6. Increased VAT to try and fix a deficit that was inherited from the dire period that was the 70's when Britain was on its knee's.
7. Gave all Union members a vote rather than the restricting it to the people running it. Even Kinnock recognised that was the way forward.
8. Encourage home ownership, a point that even The Mirror acknowledge was positive, the argument being the money should have been reinvested into more housing, which is fair.
9. Fair point.
10. Actually it did go well for the term she was in power. It was the latter greed that put pay to it.