Barnes

[Thimble Keegan]

I have often said on here that Barnes' biggest strength is his link-up play so why he is asked to play so deep is a mystery. He either needs to be right up alongside CMS or not out there at all! But yesterday CMS was pretty much played upfront on his own which is baffling as Poyet was quite damning of the Scot's when he was used as the lone striker for them recently.

We debated after the game how it is become a massive shame that we let Glenn Murray go as he and CMS upfront together would have been a dream partnership. During the Hull match Barnes was often so far away from Craig is was not really an attacking partnership and watching Mackail-Smith charge around on his own in the final third was sad. He must be getting frustrated with this and if he did not then he surely would have done when we started to lump the ball up to him...We are not just getting the best out of him in my opinion. This can be helped by sticking Ashley up there with him because if we are not going to do that then we should not play him.

Albion & England forever.

Thimble Keegan
Rustington BHA

 

[Biancazzurro]

Only because he takes the pens

You say it like that's a bad thing?! We have someone to confidently step up and score penalties, its a good thing! We all know how easily a team can get in a rut of ballsing them up!

 

[LamieRobertson]

People do seem to get a bit precious about Barnes...it seems okay to criticise Dicker..Harley etc....i quite like Barnes..and he does a lot of work that people don't necessarily see..and has been said his defensive work is very gd...however...yesterday he had a stinker..and i bet if u asked the player he would say the same thing..i'm not for dropping a player on one bad performance..but last 20 mins..i fail to see why Hoskins wasn't given a trot...Gus has said he needs hame time...well he isn't going to get any unless he's on the pitch...any way i'm just a punter...up the Albion!

 

[BensGrandad]

Based on what? So pre-season doesn't appear to give any clear evidence that he is more clinical.

Based on what I have seen of his time on the field. I am sure that your stats have some validity but I fail to see how they are obtained and also doubt very much their accuracy and prefer to rely on my own eyes and view of the game. I am sure that what I may consider a chance based on experience and knowledge of the game your stats may not agree and vice versa.

I also believe, again in what I have seen, that Hoskins will link up better with CMS

 

[Acker79]

Based on what I have seen of his time on the field. I am sure that your stats have some validity but I fail to see how they are obtained and also doubt very much their accuracy and prefer to rely on my own eyes and view of the game. I am sure that what I may consider a chance based on experience and knowledge of the game your stats may not agree and vice versa.

I also believe, again in what I have seen, that Hoskins will link up better with CMS

The stats are from here: Hoskins, Barnes.

Hoskins has played 40mins over three sub appearances this season.

I seem to remember you previously mentioning seeing some preseason games, but his appearances were:
45mins v burgess hill
only. He didn't play v whitehawk or horsham, or eastbourne or v the tottenham first team.

Unless you went to portugal, you will have only seen him play 85 minutes in a brighton shirt.

His appearances in portugal
74 mins v tottenham XI
30min v paris st germain
90mins v Olhanense


I'm not saying you're wrong, or that Hoskins isn't that good, I just don't see how the majority of fans can make that judgement given how little he has played (most of them wouldn't have seen the pre-season, so only seen at most 40 minutes, 32 of which was away from home). There seems to be an assumption of "he had a great game against us, and he got 20 goals last season, but that was in a struggling team, so he obviously didn't have as many shots as ashley" which isn't supported by the available stats.

 

[peterward]

Just out of interest, who is our leading scorer this season?

So Barnes is better than CMS then in your opinion?

Get over yourself El Pres, He has scored penalties, noboby doubts he is a good 6 yard poacher, but he is a lower league Andy Cole, he misses loads and right now, regardless of how well he started, he has gone for games on end offering nothing in attack......... our number 9 is getting chances but NOT scoring goals in open play.

You pick players on current form not past form, and right now Barnes is out of form........ if he gets it back, put him back in, until he gets it back give someone else a chance as Barnes is offering Zilch in attack

 

[Acker79]

Get over yourself El Pres, He has scored penalties, noboby doubts he is a good 6 yard poacher,

So four penalties (12 yrds) and a 30 yarder out of 7 goals makes him a good 6 yard poacher?

 

[BensGrandad]

I did go to Portugal and it was from there and his appearance against Burgess Hill that gave me the impression that he will form a very good and deadly partnership with CMS, and possibly more productive for both than CMS and Barnes together.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

I'm not criticising Barnes, I'm just wondering why get Hoskins to warm up and then not put him on? Seems a strange decision to me.

 

[Withdeano]

Wrong!!!!

I would volunteer a grand f*** OFF. Barnes is being asked to play wide to give balance whilst Vicente/Noone (whoever Poyet picks as a wide option) is given free realm. It staggers me how many people think Barnes offers nothing, when in fact his link-up play as a replacement for Murray, his running the channels, and his tracking back, are integral to how we play. I get the feeling he could score 30 this season and people would still somehow find a way to slag him off. He had ONE chance today (when he was offside anyway) which admittedly he fluffed over. I just find it funny how CMS missed from practically under the bar against Leicester and everyone wrote it off as a fluke miss. If that'd been Barnes he would've been crucified. If you can't see the work he's doing I don't know how to reason with you. Top scorer. One of our top assisters (if there is such a word). What more do people want from him?

Barnes was shocking yesterday and at Ipswich. Yes, he's made a good contribution this season, but this thread questions why Hoskins wasn't given a runout when AB was clearly well below par. It's not a case that Barnes has no future at Brighton - clearly he does, BUT it is more of a case of what has Hoskins got to do to get on? If you're saying people should stop giving Barnes grief per se then fine, but to try to defend what was a very poor match by him yesterday doesn't make sense.

 

[Reinelt12]

I did go to Portugal and it was from there and his appearance against Burgess Hill that gave me the impression that he will form a very good and deadly partnership with CMS, and possibly more productive for both than CMS and Barnes together.

You are forming the opinion that Hoskins will form a deadly partnership with CMS on a pre-season friendly against Burgess Hill? Did I actually read that right?

 

[BensGrandad]

No not entirely also on his games in Portugal. The standard of the opposition is immaterial it is the manner in which they appearred to be able to read each others movement and thoughts on the pitch.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

Agree he was poor at Ipswich, but to be honest, I'm not surprised he struggled against Palace and Hull, as he was played totally out of position. Clearly, Gus wanted to pack the midfield last night, and fair enough, but to ask a right-footed forward to play at left wing smacks of what McGhee used to do and get slated for. To me, if that was Gus's wish, he should have put Vincelot alongside Bridcutt, Vicente on the left and Sparrow behind CMS (just behind the forward was where he was so effective at Swindon). As I saw it, Barnes's confidence was right down and once he went back to his normal position, he was probably in no frame of mind to play well. Having said that, I would like to see Hoskins given a longer run (so long as he is fit), but as someone said, what is the point of having him on the bench if he isn't?

 

[bhawoddy]

Barnes - f***ing awful!!! doesnt contribute anything in open play. No skill, no ability (other than taking a good penatly). looses the ball al the time. Useless!!


But Poyet loves him!!!

 

[fleet]

Barnes did a vast amount of work in defence and midfield, without that we would have had had a hard time. Play him as a midfielder with another forward, but not as a forward. He is scared to take a shot, and I always wish he would shoot rather than pass, then he takes a shot and I wish he had passed.

 

[El Presidente]

Perhaps Gus picks him because he does exactly as asked. I would have kept Murray ahead of him at the end of last season but the manager chose different. Again yesterday I agree with many that Hoskins probably deserved a run out at some stage but Barnes certainly put in a decent shift defensively, which is perhaps why Gus kept him on the park.

As for criticising his ability to SCORE penalties, that seems very harsh as we were shite at them last season.

Regardless of whether it is Barnes, Casper, Painter, Dicker there will always be SOMEONE a section of the fan base will pick on. By all means criticise him but telling him to f*** off because he hasn't scored for a few weeks is disproportionate. The stench of hypocrisy from those who expect loyalty from players yet feel they should be out of the door if they go without a goal for three games says a lot about the fickle nature of what passes for 'support' these days.

Has anyone noticed that Barnes has been first up the tunnel at the end of each match recently?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Perhaps Gus picks him because he does exactly as asked. I would have kept Murray ahead of him at the end of last season but the manager chose different. Again yesterday I agree with many that Hoskins probably deserved a run out at some stage but Barnes certainly put in a decent shift defensively, which is perhaps why Gus kept him on the park.

As for criticising his ability to SCORE penalties, that seems very harsh as we were shite at them last season.

Regardless of whether it is Barnes, Casper, Painter, Dicker there will always be SOMEONE a section of the fan base will pick on. By all means criticise him but telling him to f*** off because he hasn't scored for a few weeks is disproportionate. The stench of hypocrisy from those who expect loyalty from players yet feel they should be out of the door if they go without a goal for three games says a lot about the fickle nature of what passes for 'support' these days.

Has anyone noticed that Barnes has been first up the tunnel at the end of each match recently?

weak bladder?

 

[Reinelt12]

No not entirely also on his games in Portugal. The standard of the opposition is immaterial it is the manner in which they appearred to be able to read each others movement and thoughts on the pitch.

I sort of see where you are coming from, what I worry about is that too many people are pinning their hopes on Hoskins being the saviour... the same Will Hoskins who last year was playing in a side relegated from League 1, despite his goals. I have no doubt he is a talent, but I think he is going to need to be given some time before suddenly the fans who thought he would blast a hat-trick in his first few starts get on his back...

The below should probably be on one of the "who isnt good enough for the championship" threads but it kind of links in to my point above so...

Look how far we have come, and look at what we have achieved so far with what we have got. Fact is we have a squad which is predominently (sp) made up of very good League 1 players... we then bought 2 players who were in League 1 relegated clubs (Hoskins/Vincelot), the League One top scorer (CMS), A raw talent who hadnt hit the heights he probably should have in the Championship (Buckley), A player who played in a mid table Lge 1 team all last season (Harley) and a player who was one of the best in the world 7 years ago, but has had little playing time for the last 2-3 years (Vicente)

We got off to a flyer, and we all got ahead of ourselves... it doesnt help that the SCC have also got off to a fantastic start and are keeping it up (no pun intended), although I would fear for them if Lallana is out for any length of time, as their record without him is shocking - look at the sides we are playing, most of them have at least a couple of players with Premier League experience in their side, let alone Championship.

So lets give these players some time to adjust to the pace, power and physicality of this division, most of which have never played in it, or played very few games, its not as if they are floundering in the bottom three like Forest and I have every faith that this squad is good enough as it is (with maybe 1 or 2, no more, adjustments in January) to be challenging top 6 or at the very least be top half.

And back to Barnes... mainly because the bashing drives me insane - I agree he should make way for Hoskins in the next game. Not because he is crap, and not because Hoskins is definitely a lot better, but because Barnes is lacking confidence and needs a rest, and Hoskins will be chomping at the bit to show us what he can do. However I do believe Barnes will be a key player for us this season (he already has been given the goals (even the penalties) and the assists) and that when he does play again he should be backed like everyone else.

 

[Seasider78]

I don't side with this 'barnes is not good enough for us' shit as he clearly is but saying that his form has not been great in last few games so agree Hoskins deserves a chance.

A good squad has competition for places and barnes has always looked a better prospect when he is playing for his shirt.

 

[Acker79]

I did go to Portugal and it was from there and his appearance against Burgess Hill that gave me the impression that he will form a very good and deadly partnership with CMS, and possibly more productive for both than CMS and Barnes together.

Fair enough, you're in a better position than most to judge Hoskins.

I still don't think CMS and Hoskins have played together enough for anyone to pass judgement on their partnership (according to the report CMS didn't play v the Tottenham XI, and didn't start v Olhanense (I'm having trouble finding a report that gives any mention of CMS's part in that match - the argus reports hoskins and agdestein started it). So, 45 v Burgess hill, 30 v Paris sg, 36 in the league (CMS was taken of four minutes before the end of leeds where hoskins played), plus whatever they played together v olhanense, is not enough time together, imo, to form an accurate appraisal of them as a partnership.