Aye Aye Ashley

[Triggaaar]

I agree but isn't the argument not really whether he had the ball or not but the follow through.

Well that should be the argument, but every time someone says 'Barnes's challenge' or similar, it gives the impression of, well, Barnes making a challenge. And to say he got to it first also suggest two players are rushing to the ball, and Barnes gets there first, but dangerously - which would normally result in a card. But that too is not what happened.

I agree he was in possession although the ball was there for Matic to go for. Barnes played the pass but followed through, in my view, unnecessarily. It doesnt' matter if you play the ball first these days.

When lunging in for a ball, winning the ball, and taking the opponent out with your follow through, no, playing the ball first doesn't matter. I'm not so sure about when you had the ball in the first place, it doesn't happen so often.

But I agree with you, we need to know whether Barnes deliberately followed through to try and hurt Matic. And I can't tell without first studying how he normally passes the ball when under pressure. Just looking at this pass though, before Matic is there, Barnes has already started making the pass, and his weight is no longer on his left leg at all, and he anticipates landing on the grass with his right leg. If Matic doesn't dive in, that's what would happen, Barnes would land with his weight on his right leg. So I'm not sure what else he's supposed to do. He could have realised what was happening and backed out earlier and fallen over, but I don't see how not doing so is a big crime.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I can assure you it looks like he was fairly near putting his full weight into his leg;
He's not even looking at the ball.

View attachment 63290

Accident or not, it looked like Matic was lucky not to have got his leg broken. Ash knew he caught him bad, and if it was an accident most players would have apologised, made sure they were ok, patted them on the head etc, and then helped them up. It's they way that he got up, turned around, and walked away as if no contact had even been made that makes the whole incident suspicious to what the the split second intent really was.

Again misleading. Any chance you can produce one showing the play upto the point just before Barnes made contact with Matic.

There was a still earlier in the thread that showed that Matic wasn't even close and was lunging in, not Barnes.

 

[drew]

Really. Watch the above posted by our resident Burnley fan.

I've seen the incident enough times and having watched what you have posted changes nothing. The video shows Barnes playing the ball and then following through. You might think he didn't mean it, I do.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I've seen the incident enough times and having watched what you have posted changes nothing. The video shows Barnes playing the ball and then following through. You might think he didn't mean it, I do.

It's difficult to avoid Matic lunging in .

 

[drew]

It's difficult to avoid Matic lunging in .

I agree and never suggested he could have avoided contact but after playing the ball, Barnes doesn't need to keep his leg locked straight. He only bends his knee once the full force of contact has been made.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree and never suggested he could have avoided contact but after playing the ball, Barnes doesn't need to keep his leg locked straight. He only bends his knee once the full force of contact has been made.

If what you described happened, Matic would have been injured, instead of which he jumped up immediately to run over to Barnes to shove him over. He hardly got a scratch, let alone an injury.

 

[beorhthelm]

How was he trying to make a pass with his foot in the middle of Matic shin? Probably not intentional but very wild.

you clearly havent watched the footage.

 

[beorhthelm]

I can assure you it looks like he was fairly near putting his full weight into his leg;
He's not even looking at the ball.

why dont you stop viewing that half second of footage and watch the full cut with the passage of play. at that point Barnes has played the ball, Matic isnt even within a couple of foot of the ball and comes in late to block and catches Barnes follow through. i reckon Barnes did let the leg swing a bit more than necessary and does think hes caught him a bit and going to get some trouble, and not in his phsyche to apologies for his challenges. but i dont believe he thought there was a serious injury and Matic was no where near a break because the force just isnt there.

if anything this epsiode has shown us how the "camera never lies" is bollocks, as it can be made to show a different story depending on the cutting.

 

[8th battalion East Lancs]

As for that boring Geordie juan anchor on Match Of The Day, check him out kicking Lennon full in the face like a coward (31 seconds in)........

 

[wakeytom]

why dont you stop viewing that half second of footage and watch the full cut with the passage of play. at that point Barnes has played the ball, Matic isnt even within a couple of foot of the ball and comes in late to block and catches Barnes follow through. i reckon Barnes did let the leg swing a bit more than necessary and does think hes caught him a bit and going to get some trouble, and not in his phsyche to apologies for his challenges. but i dont believe he thought there was a serious injury and Matic was no where near a break because the force just isnt there.

if anything this epsiode has shown us how the "camera never lies" is bollocks, as it can be made to show a different story depending on the cutting.

Why does he leg and ankle bend in the fashion in does if there was no "force" Barnes should not have even been on the pitch at that point after his earlier assault (really cannot use the word tackle after watching it again)

 

[symyjym]

I spoke to Ashley at the sponsors dinner and he was still upset that the club wouldn't let him stand up for himself.
Barnes caught the ref on the back of the heel as he was watching Bridge to his left. The ref was already fed up with Barnes having whinged about being fouled in our penalty area earlier.

It looked like he tried to make it look like an accident. Plausible but unlikely, though I am sure that he can always say that the ref wasn’t looking where he was going, so technically it wasn’t his fault.

 

[beorhthelm]

Why does he leg and ankle bend in the fashion in does if there was no "force" Barnes should not have even been on the pitch at that point after his earlier assault (really cannot use the word tackle after watching it again)

presumably because of the nature of Matic's lunging challenge/block, he has no real strength in the leg, as he is spread eagleds stretching to amke the block. as the video shows, Matic leaps up immediatly, so was clearly not in any substantial pain though having caught some studs in behind his shin guard he's rather miffed. point is, either way you look at it, Barnes plays the ball first then Matic comes in. so it isnt a Barnes tackle and he cannot of had any serious intent as there wasnt a Matic limb present at first.

 

[wakeytom]

presumably because of the nature of Matic's lunging challenge/block, he has no real strength in the leg. as the video shows, Matic leaps up immediatly, so was clearly not in any substantial pain though having caught some studs in behind his shin guard he's rather miffed. point is, either way you look at it, Barnes plays the ball first then Matic comes in. so it isnt a Barnes tackle and he cannot of had any serious intent as there wasnt a Matic limb present at first.

Reckless play, and its lucky that Matic does not now have a broken leg, the fact that he managed to get him or not is irrelevant, why and where does it say in the rules it can only be a red card if you shorten someones career?

 

[symyjym]

why dont you stop viewing that half second of footage and watch the full cut with the passage of play. at that point Barnes has played the ball, Matic isnt even within a couple of foot of the ball and comes in late to block and catches Barnes follow through. i reckon Barnes did let the leg swing a bit more than necessary and does think hes caught him a bit and going to get some trouble, and not in his phsyche to apologies for his challenges. but i dont believe he thought there was a serious injury and Matic was no where near a break because the force just isnt there.

if anything this epsiode has shown us how the "camera never lies" is bollocks, as it can be made to show a different story depending on the cutting.

You have missed my point with the gif; You said to me

or maybe, as the player there, he knew he hadnt put anywhere near full weight in.

The graphic is there to show that a lot of his weight went into the tackle. I am not disputing what happened just before, just your "he hadnt put anywhere near full weight in" statement. And to also say "no where near a break because the force just isnt there." is absurd.

 

[symyjym]

Again misleading. Any chance you can produce one showing the play upto the point just before Barnes made contact with Matic.

There was a still earlier in the thread that showed that Matic wasn't even close and was lunging in, not Barnes.

That gif was a response to;

he knew he hadnt put anywhere near full weight in .

I am certainly not misleading anyone on the point of how much weight with a straighted leg, and including momentum could have broken his leg, whether it was an accident or not.

 

[beorhthelm]

Reckless play,

really? then we'd better start playing like netball then, no tackles or movement when in possession.

You have missed my point with the gif; You said to me

The graphic is there to show that a lot of his weight went into the tackle.

my point is that the still graphic makes it look like theres weight, but from the full sequence we can see that isnt the case as its a flailing leg from a pass, and Matic posture means theres no weight on his leg either. to say that Barnes is "near putting his full weight into his leg" ignores his standing leg, and would mean he'd have to shift his body weight in the half second after he's play the cushioned pass and seen Matic is trying to block. its daft. though i fully understand the impression the still gives as i thought it was a bad challenge at first too.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

A great still of Ashley passing the ball and Matic's leg a couple of foot away.

Reckless play, and its lucky that Matic does not now have a broken leg, the fact that he managed to get him or not is irrelevant, why and where does it say in the rules it can only be a red card if you shorten someones career?

Look at the above picture, where Barnes is playing the ball and his leg then swings naturally like any other player who plays a pass, look where Matic is when Barnes is passing the ball on.

Now tell me, who is late into the tackle? I would say that if anyone is reckless, then it's Matic because his challenge is mis-timed and he catches Barnes action.

I can't believe how some are trying to make out on this thread that Barnes is the one who was reckless or late, or deliberatley going for the Chelsea player as this image just doesn't support that at all.

If a player is late to a tackle and injured as a result, why should the person who wasn't and acted normally be punished for the injured players mistake?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

You can really tell who has watched the whole clip and those who have watched the vine / MOTD coverage only on this thread.

 

[symyjym]

my point is that the still graphic makes it look like theres weight, but from the full sequence we can see that isnt the case as its a flailing leg from a pass, and Matic posture means theres no weight on his leg either. to say that Barnes is "near putting his full weight into his leg" ignores his standing leg, and would mean he'd have to shift his body weight in the half second after he's play the cushioned pass and seen Matic is trying to block. its daft. though i fully understand the impression the still gives as i thought it was a bad challenge at first too.

You cannot say that there was little weight unless you think that Matic's leg bent on it's own accord.

 

[wakeytom]

You can really tell who has watched the whole clip and those who have watched the vine / MOTD coverage only on this thread.

In that case then you will see that Barnes has followed through after the kick and kept his leg straight and eyes on the player - only 1 outcome was he looking for there, naturally the action he undertook would not even have a full outstretched leg especially one which remained locked at the knee