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[Politics] Are you a so called working class Conservative ?

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Lenny Rider

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
4,292
I don't believe you've read Animal Farm. You may well have watched the film though.

We had a Gulls Eye coach to Shrewsbury in 1989, and one of the VHS titles on offer that day was Animal Farm, but there was no mention of George Orwell or politics for the whole duration of the film?
 


mikeyjh

Members
Dec 17, 2008
4,289
Llanymawddwy
Talking about this the other day, given the part of the country we live in, will most of us as we get older move towards the Tory party and what they stand for, because we've all worked for what we've got and we want to 'conserve' that, and don't like seeing that lot from the Jeremy Kyle Show living off handouts from the welfare state?

Quite possibly - The 'Jeremy Kyle Lot' are positioned beautifully to justify people not wanting to share what they've worked for*. Gives people the validation that while they are caring and sharing, why should they share it with the ne'er do well skivers who are going to spend it all on booze, fags and Sky TV (© Daily Mail etc)?

* In south-east England this is often represented as the equity in one's house, it is neither worked for nor earned
 

Guinness Boy

“Self appointed racist finder general”
All-powerful Moderator
Jul 23, 2003
28,899
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
We had a Gulls Eye coach to Shrewsbury in 1989, and one of the VHS titles on offer that day was Animal Farm, but there was no mention of George Orwell or politics for the whole duration of the film?

Funny that :lolol:

I was on the terraces when you lot turned up with inflatable seagulls. Bobble hat coach due to my age - probably not as much fun :lol:
 

Lenny Rider

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
4,292
Quite possibly - The 'Jeremy Kyle Lot' are positioned beautifully to justify people not wanting to share what they've worked for*. Gives people the validation that while they are caring and sharing, why should they share it with the ne'er do well skivers who are going to spend it all on booze, fags and Sky TV (© Daily Mail etc)?

* In south-east England this is often represented as the equity in one's house, it is neither worked for nor earned

But the fact you earn money to pay off the mortgage on the said property, surely its both worked for and earned?
 

BBassic

I changed this.
Jul 28, 2011
10,623
From Wikipedia

Would be interesting to see how those on here pigeonhole themselves

Main article: Great British Class Survey

On 2 April 2013 analysis of the results of a survey,[30] which was conducted by the BBC in 2011 and developed in collaboration with academic experts, was published online in the journal Sociology.[31][32][33][34][35] The results released were based on a survey of 160,000 residents of the United Kingdom most of whom lived in England and described themselves as "white." Class was defined and measured according to the amount and kind of economic, cultural, and social resources, "capitals", reported. Economic capital was defined as income and assets; cultural capital as amount and type of cultural interests and activities, and social capital as the quantity and social status of their friends, family and personal and business contacts.[34] This theoretical framework was inspired by that of Pierre Bourdieu, who published his theory of social distinction in 1979.

Results
Analysis of the survey revealed seven classes: a wealthy "elite;" a prosperous salaried "middle class" consisting of professionals and managers; a class of technical experts; a class of ‘new affluent’ workers, and at the lower levels of the class structure, in addition to an ageing traditional working class, a ‘precariat’ characterised by very low levels of capital, and a group of emergent service workers. The fracturing of the middle sectors of the social structure into distinguishable factions separated by generational, economic, cultural, and social characteristics was considered notable by the authors of the research.[36][37]

Elite
Members of the elite class are the top 6% of British society with very high economic capital (particularly savings), high social capital, and very 'highbrow' cultural capital. Occupations such as chief executive officers, IT and telecommunications directors, marketing and sales directors; functional managers and directors, solicitors, barristers and judges, financial managers, higher education teachers,[38] dentists, doctors and advertising and public relations directors were strongly represented.[39] However, those in the established and 'acceptable' professions, such as academia, law and medicine are more traditional upper middle class identifiers, with IT and sales being the preserve of the economic if not social middle class.

Established middle class
Members of the established middle class, about 25% of British society, reported high economic capital, high status of mean social contacts, and both high highbrow and high emerging cultural capital. Well-represented occupations included electrical engineers, occupational therapists, social workers, midwives, environmental professionals, quality assurance and regulatory professionals, town planning officials, and special needs teaching professionals.[40]

Technical middle class
The technical middle class, about 6% of British society, shows high economic capital, very high status of social contacts, but relatively few contacts reported, and moderate cultural capital. Occupations represented include medical radiographers, aircraft pilots, pharmacists, natural and social science professionals and physical scientists, and business, research, and administrative positions.[41]

New affluent workers
New affluent workers, about 15% of British society, show moderately good economic capital, relatively poor status of social contacts, though highly varied, and moderate highbrow but good emerging cultural capital. Occupations include electricians and electrical fitters; postal workers; retail cashiers and checkout operatives; plumbers and heating and ventilation technicians; sales and retail assistants; housing officers; kitchen and catering assistants; quality assurance technicians.[41]

Traditional working class
The traditional working class, about 14% of British society, shows relatively poor economic capital, but some housing assets, few social contacts, and low highbrow and emerging cultural capital. Typical occupations include electrical and electronics technicians; care workers; cleaners; van drivers; electricians; residential, day, and domiciliary care [41]

Emergent service sector
The emergent service sector, about 19% of British society, shows relatively poor economic capital, but reasonable household income, moderate social contacts, high emerging (but low highbrow) cultural capital. Typical occupations include bar staff, chefs, nursing auxiliaries and assistants, assemblers and routine operatives, care workers, elementary storage occupations, customer service occupations, and musicians.[41]

Precariat
The precariat, about 15% of British society, shows poor economic capital, and the lowest scores on every other criterion. Typical occupations include cleaners, van drivers, care workers, carpenters and joiners, caretakers, leisure and travel service occupations, shopkeepers and proprietors, and retail cashiers.[42]

I was going to bring this up; the book they released on this, Social Class in the 21st Century, is a great read.
 

Guinness Boy

“Self appointed racist finder general”
All-powerful Moderator
Jul 23, 2003
28,899
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Quite possibly - The 'Jeremy Kyle Lot' are positioned beautifully to justify people not wanting to share what they've worked for*. Gives people the validation that while they are caring and sharing, why should they share it with the ne'er do well skivers who are going to spend it all on booze, fags and Sky TV (© Daily Mail etc)?

* In south-east England this is often represented as the equity in one's house, it is neither worked for nor earned

Even as a centre-left voter I can't agree with that either. Once you have a mortgage and are earning a crust you are working for and earning any equity gain. It's how the housing market works. Why on earth should people share that? If the market tanks and people end up in negative equity are you suggesting they should be bailed out by people on benefits to stop defaults to lenders?

Housing has become another investment like stocks, savings accounts, pensions, whatever. You may not LIKE that or agree with it. You may say a house is a right (and a roof over your head should be but a mortgage is certainly not a right). But to say people haven't worked for their equity? Bollocks. They saved hard, pay their mortgage and took on a risk based investment. Good on them.
 


Soul Finger

Members
May 12, 2004
2,193
I grew up in council house with two Conservative Party-supporting parents.

From a very early age I knew that they didn't represent me, or my beliefs, in any single way.

People taking the piss on benefits - as proven many times - is a tiny fraction of the unpaid tax revenue we lose from big corporations etc.

Why focus your ire on the poor when the rich are clearly mugging us all off every single day?

The Tories don't give a monkeys about the working classes and if you believe they do, give your head a wobble.

As for aspiration, it's not a Tory trait, it's the human desire to prosper and move forward.
 

Lenny Rider

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
4,292
I grew up in council house with two Conservative Party-supporting parents.

From a very early age I knew that they didn't represent me, or my beliefs, in any single way.

People taking the piss on benefits - as proven many times - is a tiny fraction of the unpaid tax revenue we lose from big corporations etc.

Why focus your ire on the poor when the rich are clearly mugging us all off every single day?

The Tories don't give a monkeys about the working classes and if you believe they do, give your head a wobble.

As for aspiration, it's not a Tory trait, it's the human desire to prosper and move forward.

Out of interest did the Tories sell your parents their Council House and get them on the property ladder?
 

Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
10,423
Almería
There is nothing wrong with that at all. Most sensible people I know are, especially over 30 when you have more idea of economics & what sounds sensible and fair .

Being aspirational and wanting to do the best for yourself and your family is what being Conservative is all about. Need to make sure tempered with enough support for the NHS & the less fortunate or able but the early signs from this conservative govt are quite good in that regard.

I'm over 30 and have studied, and continue to take an interest in, economics. My aspirations are for a better society for all, not solely me and my family. What is "sensible" is very subjective.
 

Soul Finger

Members
May 12, 2004
2,193
Out of interest did the Tories sell your parents their Council House and get them on the property ladder?

No. We moved in to look after my dying nan.

We sold our smallholding in Wales to fund the alterations required for the house.

The selling off of council houses is one of the worst policies this country has introduced. Unless you benefitted from it, of course.

Which is what seems to matter the most to certain tranches of the populous.
 

mikeyjh

Members
Dec 17, 2008
4,289
Llanymawddwy
But the fact you earn money to pay off the mortgage on the said property, surely its both worked for and earned?

Absolutely not - A house bought for £300k in 2007, sold for, let's say £300k profit 10 years later, in no way, shape or form was the balance between those numbers was worked for or earned, it simply wasn't. It's bonkers. The very fact that we use the word 'property' to almost exclusively describe housing is so telling about how we think about people's homes.
 

mikeyjh

Members
Dec 17, 2008
4,289
Llanymawddwy
No. We moved in to look after my dying nan.

We sold our smallholding in Wales to fund the alterations required for the house.

The selling off of council houses is one of the worst policies this country has introduced. Unless you benefitted from it, of course.

Which is what seems to matter the most to certain tranches of the populous.

Quite, and you can tell those who did a mile off - We have a housing crisis but hey, if I make a few quid on a house, I'm all right Jack....
 
Jul 5, 2003
2,387
Sorry. I disagree. It’s okay for tangible things like broken bones and operations etc. But it’s totally and utterly woeful for things like mental health. And I will say this for the umpteenth time, it’s biggest single issue is a lack of funding.

As an incurable cancer patient I have had brilliant treatment but my life expectancy would be increased by access to maintenance drugs that are viewed as too expensive. This is not because of too many Romanians using the service, who the fxxk do people think has been providing the care, but because of funding decisions made by UK governments. A lot of people in my position make a huge fuss about putting a price on human life. I would always have been prepared to pay more for a health service without expecting to need it as I have. Many making this fuss will have happily voted for the Tories and looked to evade tax in the past. At least I don’t have to live with that hypocrisy.
 


The Antikythera Mechanism

The oldest known computer
Absolutely not - A house bought for £300k in 2007, sold for, let's say £300k profit 10 years later, in no way, shape or form was the balance between those numbers was worked for or earned, it simply wasn't. It's bonkers. The very fact that we use the word 'property' to almost exclusively describe housing is so telling about how we think about people's homes.

It’s very easy to use arbitrary figures to justify an argument. We bought our house in March 2008 and according to Zoopla, house prices in our area have increased by 45% since then. In the same period inflation has been 30%(Consumer Price Index - ONS)
 

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
33,705
Absolutely not - A house bought for £300k in 2007, sold for, let's say £300k profit 10 years later, in no way, shape or form was the balance between those numbers was worked for or earned, it simply wasn't. It's bonkers. The very fact that we use the word 'property' to almost exclusively describe housing is so telling about how we think about people's homes.

we should build more, but few want that either.
 

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,733
LOONEY BIN
I wonder how many working class Tories there will be once the credit bubble bursts and property owners in Brighton face negative equity as well as interest rates going back to 5%+ ? They will be 'on Universal Credit Tories' then and the 'I'm alright Jack' reality bites them on their backsides and they find out the people they've been insulting and deriding for years were in fact the ones who had their backs and it wasn't the Tories.
 
Feb 23, 2009
7,512
North of Brighton
I’ll take all that over having a racist misogynist miles removed from the reality of the man/woman on the street courtesy of his privileged upbringing as our head of state. It was bad enough when he was putting his foot in it as Foreign Secretary. Sure, denigrate Labour all you like, and fair enough, but voting for Johnson is quite something else altogether. Vile, utterly vile.
Why vile. Utterly inappropriate description. Do you honestly believe Corbyn is less removed from the reality of the man in the street?
 

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