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[Albion] Are we a better team WITH or WITHOUT Welbeck?

With or Without?

  • With

    Votes: 51 31.7%
  • Without

    Votes: 29 18.0%
  • Depends on opposition

    Votes: 81 50.3%

  • Total voters
    161


Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
13,878
Almería
Yeah and how many of those sprints can he sustain during the course of a match? You're living in the past and in denial. I would have Ferguson and Undav on the pitch (ideally together) anytime these days rather than Danny. And let's not completely forget the inability to score goals and the fact that he's injury prone.
I don't have the stats on his sprints per game. You said the problem was that he was too slow but now you've moved the goal posts. Oh course he's had his injury problems but when fit I've not noticed a problem with endurance.

Number of sprints per game isn't necessarily that important anyway. Look at these numbers from 2021. Aaron Connolly was sprinting a lot more than Harry Kane, for example.

Screenshot_2023-03-29-12-37-17-420_com.theathletic.jpg



Welbeck has never been prolific. Back in his Man U days his best return was 9. For Arsenal his peak was 5. He's hit 6 in two season for us. When he gets a chance his conversion rate is decent at about 15% last year. To compare, Harry Kane's was 17% and Gabriel Jesús is around 12% this year. Ferguson is on 20% this year from an admittedly small sample.

To be a forward in a De Zerbi team you need to be able to stretch the play and, crucially, drop in to link with the midfield and widemen. Can Welbeck do that? I'd say yes with the added benefit of bringing his nous, skill and ability to act as a mentor for the youngsters.

Ferguson is first choice now but Danny stil has a lot to offer from the bench and as an occasional starter. If you wanted to squeeze Undav in the starting line up, who do you drop?
 




Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Yeah and how many of those sprints can he sustain during the course of a match? You're living in the past and in denial. I would have Ferguson and Undav on the pitch (ideally together) anytime these days rather than Danny. And let's not completely forget the inability to score goals and the fact that he's injury prone.
I'd suggest nobody is living further in the past than your goodself, if you believe these sprints of which you hold so preciously are in anyway connected with how RDZ wants the team to play.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
51,297
Faversham
That is totally opaque, it needs to be ‘minutes played’ not ‘appearances’. An appearance could be 5 minutes.
Indeed. He played 90 minutes every game for Arsenal and Man U, but only 5 minutes a game for us.

So his goals per minute ratio has gone through the roof since he joined us. Fact.
 


South Oz Seagull

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2022
306
Norwood SA
I don't have the stats on his sprints per game. You said the problem was that he was too slow but now you've moved the goal posts. Oh course he's had his injury problems but when fit I've not noticed a problem with endurance.

Number of sprints per game isn't necessarily that important anyway. Look at these numbers from 2021. Aaron Connolly was sprinting a lot more than Harry Kane, for example.

View attachment 158957


Welbeck has never been prolific. Back in his Man U days his best return was 9. For Arsenal his peak was 5. He's hit 6 in two season for us. When he gets a chance his conversion rate is decent at about 15% last year. To compare, Harry Kane's was 17% and Gabriel Jesús is around 12% this year. Ferguson is on 20% this year from an admittedly small sample.

To be a forward in a De Zerbi team you need to be able to stretch the play and, crucially, drop in to link with the midfield and widemen. Can Welbeck do that? I'd say yes with the added benefit of bringing his nous, skill and ability to act as a mentor for the youngsters.

Ferguson is first choice now but Danny stil has a lot to offer from the bench and as an occasional starter. If you wanted to squeeze Undav in the starting line up, who do you drop?
I'd suggest nobody is living further in the past than your goodself, if you believe these sprints of which you hold so preciously are in anyway connected with how RDZ wants the team to play.

I'd suggest nobody is living further in the past than your goodself, if you believe these sprints of which you hold so preciously are in anyway connected with how RDZ wants the team to play.
He doesn't score enough goals, but is a good team player. If kept fit, he is a good fit for our current set up. He can bring others into play and will help Ferguson with his experience. At 32 he has another couple of years in him, again if he can stay fit. We've done well with him over the years he has been with us, when you consider how many games a season he was playing previously(awaits stats to be proved incorrect)

He is indeed, no doubt good for Ferguson (and Undav).
 
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South Oz Seagull

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2022
306
Norwood SA
In all of this debate around Danny Welbeck, I really don't understand why people are so obsessed with a player who is on the way out. He is in the twilight of his career. Ferguson is a big part of the future and I think we all agree on that.

The only other goal scoring player who comes into contention is Undav, and he needs to be given more top level game time to have any chance of reaching his potential. So many people seem willing to have him sit on the bench, or write him off or trade him at the end of the season or farm him out to some lower level club that's no better than the Belgian club he came from etc etc.

Different players develop in different ways over different periods of time. There is no one size fits all approach to assess the value of a player. Give Undav game time for the remaining matches and then at the end of the season it may or may not be appropriate to make a call on his future at the Albion.
 




Flagship

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2018
424
Brighton
We've been very lucky over the years to have some great centre forwards, Zamora, Murray and Welbeck, all three quite similar in style and a great to watch. Albeit, Welbeck isn't as prolific as the other two, the amount of goals we are scoring currently reflects his importance to the team. It's a squad game more than ever now and especially if we get into Europe so he is very important to us going forward.
 


jcdenton08

Enemy of the People
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,074
Welbeck remains an “option”, and I suspect may start tomorrow due to Ferguson’s minutes so quickly accumulating so quickly with us and now Ireland.

That said, it’s one we’ll need to upgrade sooner rather than later. I like Danny but he’s a Pröpper compared to a MacAllister, or a Duffy compared with a Veltman.

Done well enough for us, but the club will be hoping for a step up soon from a better striker.
 






Perkino

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2009
5,993
A really good player who allows us to play a system that brings March & Mitoma into devistating positions with the ball. Ferguson also fulfills this role well and both worked best with a slick passer in the hole behind them.

Neither stretch play and force CB's to turn and chase but both drop deep and pull CB's away from goal whilst linking play. RDZ thinks the team play better in this formation
 


Justice

Dangerous Idiot
Jun 21, 2012
19,217
Born In Shoreham
Darren Bent has been calling for Welbeck to be included back into the England squad for a while now, it won’t happen though with Wankgate at the helm. I thought he was excellent against Palace his hold up play and distribution was top draw. He will have a big part to play at Wembley he’s definitely a big game player.
 


South Oz Seagull

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2022
306
Norwood SA
Darren Bent has been calling for Welbeck to be included back into the England squad for a while now, it won’t happen though with Wankgate at the helm. I thought he was excellent against Palace his hold up play and distribution was top draw. He will have a big part to play at Wembley he’s definitely a big game player.
"Wankgate"..it fits!

:lolol:
I can only see one person on this thread who appears to be obsessed with him. Clue: not me.
Hilarious (not).
 




Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Here's something to enjoy.

All Mitomas goals with Japanese commentary.

No I haven't lost the plot, while enjoying the footage, watch substitute Welbeck during the celebration of Mitoma's slide in v West Ham.




I'm far from a Welbz fan boy - but if it ain't broke don't fix it.
 


CheeseRolls

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 27, 2009
6,016
Shoreham Beach
Wellbeck seems to have finished the last couple of seasons really strongly. It would be great if he can find his top form over the next couple of months, to help us to really make this season something special.
 


















Oh_aye

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2022
1,651
Highly dependent on circumstances. Continued form permitting its gonna be ferg starting and wellbeck coming on from here on in though.
 


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