Are National ID cards back on the agenda?

[Westdene Seagull]

you mean apart from NHS records, HMRC, DVLA, DWP, electoral roll?

NHS, HMRC and DWP data handed to private contractors such as Capita and on many occassions lost. DVLA and electrol roll data sold for profit to companies who use it for very grey lawful means. So no, I don't trust the authorities with my data and it would be idiotic to make it even easier with a national ID database.

 

[beorhthelm]

NHS, HMRC and DWP data handed to private contractors such as Capita and on many occassions lost. DVLA and electrol roll data sold for profit to companies who use it for very grey lawful means. So no, I don't trust the authorities with my data and it would be idiotic to make it even easier with a national ID database.

yep, outsourced and at risk. my point is that the authorities already have our data, so worrying about them having it again is a bit of a non-argument. your objection is against poorly managed systems, quite rightly.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

What about colour coded triangles and stars? Seems to be the popular way forward in the current climate.

Saved me the trouble.

 

[goldstone]

We absolutely must ensure that only people who qualify receive free NHS treatment. I cannot believe that we have let this situation go on for so many decades where anyone can get free NHS treatment with no questions asked. Ridiculous.

The system should require ID and/or a credit card before treatment is given.

As a taxpayer I am absolutely fed up with my hard earned money being used to give free medical care to foreigners and free-loaders.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Following on from this, How about the NHS have a link into the NI Database. When claiming benefits (IS/IB/JSA/ESA) it's all done through your NI number.

This is a point I made earlier. It would save the administrative nightmare of issuing ID cards, and cut down on the potential for fraudulent ID cards.

 

[Albumen]

Happy with my EU passport thanks.

 

[alfredmizen]

Frontpage news stories today of needing to take your passport to hospital if you want to receive treatment.
While the requirement would enable more money to be obtained from overseas visitors, this is not something that we are used to doing in our free society.
Indeed when there was the voluntary ID scheme some years ago it never really took off and was quickly abandoned after a backlash against the idea.
So would you be prepared to accept this proposal and indeed extend it to require picture ID to be carried at all times.

Yes.

 

[alfredmizen]

Not bothered about the showing cards to get treatment idea particularly - would rather people get the treatment they need, particularly in an emergency - and ask questions afterwards.

But I don't have and have never had any problem with the question of ID cards.

its not the emergencies that are the concern , its health tourism that is the problem.

 

[alfredmizen]

A 'prove who you are' system works extremely well here in Spain without problems if you are entitled to use their system. Everybody who is officially in the system has a 'Tarjeta Sanitaria' card with their details [tax number] on it. The card has a 'chip' on it so where ever you in Spain any doctor, hospital, chemist can check your well being, prescriptions, treatments, past hospital operations. The only downside of the system is for those who 'fly under the radar' - the illegals whether they be Brits or anyone else as the cards do not carry a photo I.D. Sadly now because the system was being abused by illegals at hospitals they also for ask for photo I.D [passport - driving licence]. Any 'giri' in the country not eligible [ -not working and paying 'autonomo', generally free loading] may pay 60 euros a month [by D.D] and become fully enrolled in the system]. Do none of that then you or your relative will be asked to produce travel insurance and/or a credit card. Can anyone seriously argue against this system? Why should hard working, tax paying individuals subsidise the free loaders?

spot on.

 

[alfredmizen]

Happy with my EU passport thanks.

Not for much longer though

 

[NooBHA]

I think there are two issues being muddled up here

1. ID Cards which I am totally in favour of because having proof of identity is a good thing in this day and age with all the identity fraud around but it should be linked to eye recognition or thumb print recognition which should be easy to do now because even in our office if we print something to a communal printer it won't print off until we as individuals thumb print it on a screen.

2. The second is treatment at the NHS - And whilst I do think treatment should be free for all and I don't want only rich Russian Billionaires being able to afford it as opposed to a little French lady on a 2 week cycling trip around the UK

I would like to think that the NHS would treat anyone who came in with an ailment because that's just how humane civilised nations should treat anyone and everyone. And before people start screaming that the NHS is at breaking point. Which it isn't but it is under pressure.

A part solution to that would be to put in an insurance policy theme in place. Large insurance companies make billions from travel Insurance. So why doesn't the NHS tap into some of the market share and set up its own insurance division for foreign Nationals visiting where they pay a premium into the NHS (much like a travel insurance premium) which would cover any emergency treatment they needed whilst visiting the UK.

It won't cover everything but it would bring some much needed external funding; however, like I said, I don't want this to be for only the rich so there would need to be something in place to cover un insured individuals but for the most part if you can afford to holiday in the UK then you can afford travel insurance and I just think it is a waste seeing all the premiums going to the Insurance companies instead of the NHS.

Now I know that the insurance companies pay the NHS when they treat people and people claim back on their insurance but we are losing out on the premiums of the billions of people who never ever make a claim.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A 'prove who you are' system works extremely well here in Spain without problems if you are entitled to use their system. Everybody who is officially in the system has a 'Tarjeta Sanitaria' card with their details [tax number] on it. The card has a 'chip' on it so where ever you in Spain any doctor, hospital, chemist can check your well being, prescriptions, treatments, past hospital operations. The only downside of the system is for those who 'fly under the radar' - the illegals whether they be Brits or anyone else as the cards do not carry a photo I.D. Sadly now because the system was being abused by illegals at hospitals they also for ask for photo I.D [passport - driving licence]. Any 'giri' in the country not eligible [ -not working and paying 'autonomo', generally free loading] may pay 60 euros a month [by D.D] and become fully enrolled in the system]. Do none of that then you or your relative will be asked to produce travel insurance and/or a credit card. Can anyone seriously argue against this system? Why should hard working, tax paying individuals subsidise the free loaders?

It works but be aware that the Spanish will refuse to treat you until you produce your travel insurance so you could be dying of a burst appendix or bleeding to death, but if you've left your insurance in the hotel, you could have a problem.

 

[alfredmizen]

I think there are two issues being muddled up here

1. ID Cards which I am totally in favour of because having proof of identity is a good thing in this day and age with all the identity fraud around but it should be linked to eye recognition or thumb print recognition which should be easy to do now because even in our office if we print something to a communal printer it won't print off until we as individuals thumb print it on a screen.

2. The second is treatment at the NHS - And whilst I do think treatment should be free for all and I don't want only rich Russian Billionaires being able to afford it as opposed to a little French lady on a 2 week cycling trip around the UK

I would like to think that the NHS would treat anyone who came in with an ailment because that's just how humane civilised nations should treat anyone and everyone. And before people start screaming that the NHS is at breaking point. Which it isn't but it is under pressure.

A part solution to that would be to put in an insurance policy theme in place. Large insurance companies make billions from travel Insurance. So why doesn't the NHS tap into some of the market share and set up its own insurance division for foreign Nationals visiting where they pay a premium into the NHS (much like a travel insurance premium) which would cover any emergency treatment they needed whilst visiting the UK.

It won't cover everything but it would bring some much needed external funding; however, like I said, I don't want this to be for only the rich so there would need to be something in place to cover un insured individuals but for the most part if you can afford to holiday in the UK then you can afford travel insurance and I just think it is a waste seeing all the premiums going to the Insurance companies instead of the NHS.

Now I know that the insurance companies pay the NHS when they treat people and people claim back on their insurance but we are losing out on the premiums of the billions of people who never ever make a claim.

They come in BECAUSE
they've got a F**king ailment , and "civilised nations" will make you pay if ours not entitled , simple.

 

[KingstonSeagull]

All that would happen is people would borrow their cousins or friends ID card and go to the hospital....

 

[Perfidious Albion]

The local hospital & G P already have me on their records as a bona fide resident & citizen . The government have our personal data in N I numbers etc . All that is needed is to have a joined up system .
Those without the info certainly should have to prove eligibility for non emergency treatment. If an illegal immigrant cuts his hand I would want him to have the wound dressed at A and E ... but not receive extensive ongoing treatment for free.

 

[Official Old Man]

As an old geezer I'm against ID cards. But my kids all carry them now as standard (driving license) as proof of age. Whilst working in Spain I had to have my ID with me and often got asked for it whilst working.

 

[Biscuit]

And before people start screaming that the NHS is at breaking point. Which it isn't but it is under pressure.

As someone who has two immediate family members working in the NHS, it is absolutely at breaking point. It's held together on a great deal of good will.

 

[Boroseagull]

All that would happen is people would borrow their cousins or friends ID card and go to the hospital....

That's why the Spanish ask for photo I.D [I.D card, driving licence, passport]

 

[NooBHA]

They come in BECAUSE
they've got a F**king ailment , and "civilised nations" will make you pay if ours not entitled , simple.

That's not the people I was referring to. You totally ignored most of my post and isolated one statement and took it totally out of context

When I said ''I would like to think that the NHS would treat anyone who came in with an ailment because that's just how humane civilised nations should treat anyone and everyone'' I was referring to people attending an A & E department for holiday makers who have an illness or accident whilst on holiday and you totally turned it into a different category of people to suit your agenda.

My post was about the NHS being able to tap into the ''Travel Insurance Premium'' market but as usual some people turn it into an Immigration issue. That's not the subject I was discussing at all.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

its not the emergencies that are the concern , its health tourism that is the problem.

Having read/heard more about the ideas since, I realise that now. I can't see how anybody can object to making sure people are only getting routine treatment free if they are entitled to it.